HADD Base Training Plan Help

Yeah,I know people dont like to hear it but training in the southern heat is a real factor. 2 a days in the heat can just destroy your entire day.

Last summer I was in California for a week in August. I was blown away. I finally realized how people were running 100mpw in Aug. I'd do a 8 miler in the AM and come back to the room feeling great. I could easily gone on to work and done another run that day.

There are times at home where I finish a run of the same length and I am D O N E for the night.

As far as training, just get in a good summer base. Distance running isnt complicated, dont just do more for the sake of more.

1:58/4:10 guy,

Is that a 4:10 mile or 1500?

Hadd's program works. I've done it, and it works. However, it takes a very long time, and you have to be very patient. If you're going to be freaking out because you're not seeing rapid improvement, it's not for you. But if you can buy into the concept and just keep plugging away, you will get faster at every effort level, just like he says. I think it's especially good for someone like you, who is young and has been running relatively low miles. By using the HRM and forcing you to do lots of miles very slowly, Hadd's training keeps you from doing your easy runs too hard, and thereby allows you to increase your mileage with a minimum of stress. I do like the idea of adding some easy strides one or two days a week on your easy days, just to keep your leg turnover going. I alternate weeks of doing strides on a soccer field with doing a set of short uphill sprints. These don't take a lot out of me, but they let me stretch my legs out a bit.

Hadd takes patience, but it will get you where you want to go.

When I look at your schedule, for "this coming week", it looks OK for me, except, I would move the Friday "strides" to Thursday, and as I said before, I would do the strides after a warmup, and before the planned run for that day.I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the Hadd plan". If you are talking about the initial mileage build-up, where "Joe" went from 50 mpw to 80 mpw in 3 weeks, I'll echo "yuck yuck" above and say that's too much too soon. Maybe for "Joe" it was OK, given his history, but I would tailor that schedule to you, for example:- keeping the overall structure but convert miles to km; then it becomes 50km to 80km, or 30 miles to 50 miles- stretch the buildup from 3 weeks to 6 weeks, e.g. do each week twiceI think this would fit your situation better than "Joe's" actual build-up.If you want to keep following Hadd, Hadd introduced a "200/200" or "200-fartlek" workout, that "Joe" started on Week 8. That's 200m at about 5K pace, with 200m approx. 15 seconds slower, repeated 25x. For example, 200m in 45s, followed by 200m in 60s. (You have to figure out good times for you, adjusted for Florida summer heat -- I can't gauge that). This would replace one of your workdays. He didn't call it a speed session, but it is 5K of work at 5K pace. That sounds like a very good workout for you, and it's a good sign if you can maintain the times for all 25 reps without slowing down.

Sub16_5K wrote:

So is this plan okay then? Or should I do the Hadd plan and then do speed drills by July?

ZUIRSQ)*&UHB)$S*^% wrote:

Feather,

After reading Hadd, given that you had run 29:1X and 14:0X, why did you think you could gain from aerobic training?

Those times are nearly perfectly in line and they are not short races.

I'm quite lucky to have the PR's I do at those distances. I was a 1600/800m athlete in HS that couldn't break 16min for 5k or 9:40 for 3200m. Additionally, I've never been good at tempo/LT stuff, and (the main reason) I was coming off that 8 week lay off. I figured with that combination of factors I could probably use a nice aerobic top off.

Would have been nice if it worked really well and made tempo stuff not miserable for me any more!

Sorry to change gears, when you are looking for final certainty.

You might also want to look into this:

http://pih.bc.ca/summerofmalmo.html

Thanks everyone for your replies

I checked out summer of Malmo before, and I might do of the some workouts later on when I have an aerobic system going.

Here is my final plan for this week starting today:

Mon: 45 min @140-145 EASY DAY(PM)

Tue: 3x1 mile @175-180 half mile jog between them WORK DAY(PM)

Wed: 45 min @140-145 EASY DAY (PM)

Thu: 30 min @140-150 EASY DAY (PM) 5 X 100M strides

Fri: 45 min @160-165 WORK DAY (PM)

Sat: 20 min @140-145 EASY DAY (PM)

Sun: 90 min @145-155 LONG RUN (AM)

The PM workouts are around 6-7 PM when it's not so hot out.

I'm not looking for rapid improvement, I'm looking for a LOT (huge) improvement over a long period of time (by August-September) even if it is slow improvement.

This has a mix of low aerobic from "bottom of toothpaste" at 140-150 BPM, speed (1 stride on Thursday) upper aerobic, (the Tuesday and Friday workouts) and of course, the Sunday long run.

Just did my first workout of today:

45 Minutes @140-145 Heart rate

(I used garmin heart rate monitor)

Average Heart rate: 142

Average Pace: 9:56/mi

Distane: 4.62 Miles

Splits/Heart rate

Mile 1: 9:46 (137)

Mile 2: 10:04 (140)

Mile 3: 10:02 (142)

Mile 4: 9:57 (144)

Last 0.62: 9:52/mi pace (147 due to cardiac drift, and I was going a bit faster at the end)

I was barely sweating.

And surprisingly, it wasn't difficult keeping the heart rate in the 140-145 range at all.

It did feel VERY slow, snails pace, but wasn't too bad. I felt pretty good.

My heart rate also recovered very quickly (went down) It's around upper 50s as I type this right now.

After the run, I felt soreness all inside my legs and foot, probably from recruiting those slow twitch muscles that never normally get used.

Btw, I also noticed very large veins running down my leg (They're always prominent after my runs, and in the morning after getting up) I was barely vascular last year. It's actually pretty cool, but that's good right?

Buffalo ORange wrote:

Hadd's program works. I've done it, and it works. However, it takes a very long time, and you have to be very patient. If you're going to be freaking out because you're not seeing rapid improvement, it's not for you. But if you can buy into the concept and just keep plugging away, you will get faster at every effort level, just like he says.

I'm sorry, but what training plan would have you NOT get faster over time?

The key is consistently getting out there day in and day out. Whatever keeps you from overrunning your runs is probably going to work for you.

I don't think HADD is a good system because it ignores so many pertinent things (like actually running fast) , but frankly someone who's been running 30 mpw who wants to bump up the mileage is almost certainly going to improve as long as he doesn't burn himself out or get injured.

rekrunner wrote:

Sorry to change gears, when you are looking for final certainty.

You might also want to look into this:

http://pih.bc.ca/summerofmalmo.html

I think this may be precisely up the OP's alley.

Sub16_5K wrote:

Btw, I also noticed very large veins running down my leg (They're always prominent after my runs, and in the morning after getting up) I was barely vascular last year. It's actually pretty cool, but that's good right?

Means your body fat is low. That's generally a good thing as long as you're refueling properly after your runs and making sure your daily caloric intake is adequate for the amount of training you're doing.

well, duh wrote:

Sub16_5K wrote:

Btw, I also noticed very large veins running down my leg (They're always prominent after my runs, and in the morning after getting up) I was barely vascular last year. It's actually pretty cool, but that's good right?

Means your body fat is low. That's generally a good thing as long as you're refueling properly after your runs and making sure your daily caloric intake is adequate for the amount of training you're doing.

Well, I eat a lot after my run (protein like eggs too), Milk or Gatorade too for recovery.

For summer of Malmo, I love the workouts listed, and I will do them later on when I'm in better shape.

Modified some thing, but should be good for the rest of this week:

Mon: 45 min @140-145 EASY DAY(PM)COMPLETE!

Tue: 3x1 mile @175-180 half mile jog between them WORK DAY(PM)

Wed: 50 min @140-145 EASY DAY (PM)

Thu: 30 min @140-150 EASY DAY (PM)Pre-Run: 5 X 100M strides

Fri: 45 min @160-165 WORK DAY (PM)Half-Marathon Effort

Sat: 20-30 min @140-145 EASY DAY (PM)

Sun: 90 min @145-155 LONG RUN (AM)

(Tuesday and Friday runs are going to be 60 minutes later on, which I'm building up to)

Just did the beep test at the gym, and got max heart rate: 205 (201-205). Managed only about 122 sprints (15m) I was wracked in lactate after 100

To the OP:

I'm a high school coach, and I applaud your motivation.

Please listen to the people on here who are saying that you are over-thinking this.

If your aerobic systems are as weak as you say, chances are you need to develop yourself as an athlete before starting some super-structured training plan.

I suggest running regularly over the summer (and use your HR monitor if you like), but you need to do summer-time kid stuff too. Go swimming, ride your bike, play other pick-up sports, and eat healthy.

I also wonder why you are doing the gym 'beep' test with 122x15m sprints if you seem to nervous about doing 5x100m strides once a week...did you think about that at all?

I'm also wondering why you aren't running track?

Umm...I also have to point out that you seem to mention that that think you are 'building lactic acid' too soon...and that you were 'wracked with lactate' after doing your beep test...and you were running your mileage at like 9:30 pace.

Do you think you will ever be able to handle running fast if you never run even remotely fast in training? I understand that this is your base training, but you aren't going to ruin anything by making yourself a little uncomfortable during your training. You can develop yourself aerobically by other things besides running long and slow...you aren't even running that long in your weekly schedule.

I agree with the earlier poster to recommended some fast-finish progression runs as least. Remember that you are training yourself to eventually run in races...not just improve what your heartrate monitor says.

That reminds me...why aren't you running track again?

Woah, you misunderstood what I said. I exaggerated what I felt, my legs were burning when I was at 100 in the beep test, I was still comfortable. And I was in track, track was over for me weeks ago (only made it to district). I ran 4:59 (beating last years pr of 5:12) off of Barely any base training AT ALL (I was injured, but again, it was only shin splits and they're long gone since I changed my shoes.) I had to take 2 weeks off. Before my first meet and changed to proper shoes for my foot.

Well, yes, running is a pretty simple sport, and "run more" is actually pretty good advice for someone who thinks he's underdeveloped aerobically. But the OP is looking for a system, and asked if Hadd is a good one. I think it's a great system for the OP's situation, because it structures "run more" into a gradual, progressive system that will improve the OP's (self-identified) weakness effectively. No one, least of all Hadd himself, claims that it's a total training system that's good for all situations, but I think it's a good base-building system for the OP to use.

Reading your posts you are waaaaayyy too OCD about training or you're trolling.

"sore from recruiting slow twitch fibers" "barely vascular" who says this????

You're in HS.

1. You should be running track. What aren't you?

2. You are over thinking this by 1000%.

And btw, (sorry for double post, I'm on a computer now) I only ran the PACER JUST for a max heart rate, and I had 202-205 which is all I needed to know for my training.

A test I won't need to do for like another year. My legs feel perfectly good too. Plus, I WILL include threshold runs ONCE I'm in better shape (this includes summer of Malmo workouts) around July, which is also when my coach, in July will start conditioning, which includes speed and strenghthening after the workouts.

And even now, most of my runs will be low intensity (to get high mileage).

But today, for example, Today, I'm doing 3X1 Mile repeats.

Each mile in 170-175 (at HM effort) with half mile jog in between, and warm up + cooldown (should total 5 miles)

Next week MIGHT be a down week, based on how I feel at the end of this week. Later on, the Tuesday and Friday workouts will be 1 hour (60 minutes) at 160-165 and eventually (Maybe by August, July, it depends) It'll be 170-175, which is Hadd's HM pace (170-175) until I can keep it steady for 1 hour. By then, I'll be doing 4-6 mile LT threshold runs and those 5x2000M workouts Malmo mentioned (as well as the Phase 2A workouts such as 25x200M at 5K pace.

Most of the early base phase training runs are LONG, they will be exhausting (which is uncomfortable)

My coach has the other speedwork taken care of, I'm building a base right now, which is fundamental.(before moving to 5K-specific training, to which my COACH is to train us).