HADD Base Training Plan Help

Forgot to add,

My 5K splits tend to curve upwards, again from terrible aerobic conditioning.

One 5K I did a 19:23 on, my splits were around:

5:38, 6:00, 6:30. (could've been a 17:XX!)

And they're usually like that. I always slow down after mile 1, and 3rd mile too uncomfortable, because I'm building lactic acid sooner than I should

If you are in high school, building up to 70 mpw looks like a good target.

Don't worry about weekly details. Just mileage and endurance and stamina.

Don't worry at all about losing speed, and ignore everyone who tells you to worry about it. You are trying to fix a bigger problem. You don't need speed over the summer, and not really even for cross-country. It only takes a few weeks of training to get your speed back when you need it, and your built up stamina will help you gain more speed.

The HADD concept is an outdated one that will leave you in worse shape than you would be if you applied more modern methodologies.

Keep up the speed work (especially upper-end aerobic work) and speed development year-round and be that much faster for it.

Spend a few months slogging around at much lower intensities than necessary and find yourself playing catch up later on.

rekrunner wrote:

If you are in high school, building up to 70 mpw looks like a good target.

Don't worry about weekly details. Just mileage and endurance and stamina.

Don't worry at all about losing speed, and ignore everyone who tells you to worry about it. You are trying to fix a bigger problem. You don't need speed over the summer, and not really even for cross-country. It only takes a few weeks of training to get your speed back when you need it, and your built up stamina will help you gain more speed.

there's a reason why no elites or even decent runners use such a system. because it's a waste of time.

you can build up mileage, endurance, and stamina while ALSO working on the important parts necessary to run fast. Because that's what it's all about anyway, right? Running fast?

Then can someone give me an example of a weekly plan I should do?

Like a modified version of the above plan for building a huge aerobic base?

embrace the new, bro wrote:

there's a reason why no elites or even decent runners use such a system. because it's a waste of time.

you can build up mileage, endurance, and stamina while ALSO working on the important parts necessary to run fast. Because that's what it's all about anyway, right? Running fast?

I think the reason elites are able to build mileage while working on speed at the same time is that they have years of running behind them so they're bodies are better able to handle those stresses. Now I'm not saying that speed work should be completely abandoned, but considered OP's age, it would be wiser to place the bulk of emphasis on aerobic running.

Incorporating strides twice a week is one way to maintain leg turnover, and I know from reading Hadd's text that there is a 25 x 200m workout that is run at around 5K pace so it's not like he advocated for neglecting speed maintenance either.

To the OP, you're weekly schedule looks good, I would add 4-5 x 100m strides with full rest to Monday and Fridays after your easy runs. The run at 160-165 BPM on Tuesday will eventually turn into a threshold or tempo effort as you get into better shape. If you're going to follow Hadd, then you have to be patient.

[/quote]

there's a reason why no elites or even decent runners use such a system. because it's a waste of time.

you can build up mileage, endurance, and stamina while ALSO working on the important parts necessary to run fast. Because that's what it's all about anyway, right? Running fast?[/quote]

I certainly agree with your premise that you can work on running fast while employing Hadd's base building program, but you are incorrect in your assumption that no elites do similar type work. Just because Hadd brought it to popularity on this board, don't for a minute think that he invented it. Priscilla Welch, Ingrid Kristiansen and Lassie Viren are three former elites that immediately come to mind who employed this type of training. Hadd simply found a very understandable way of explaining it. I think for this young man it could help create the strong foundation he needs as obviously he IS aerobically weak based upon his PR's and by slowing down, running more and increasing his mitochondria he will develop his systems and get faster even before he starts on specific speedwork (which obviously is necessary as well).

Thanks for the replies! I have modified my plan for this coming week by adding strides:

Monday: Easy Day

AM: Rest

PM: 45 Min Easy @ 65-70% 140-145 + 5 X 100m strides

Tuesday: Work Day

PM: 60 Min Easy @ 75-80% 160-165

Wednesday: Easy Day

AM: Rest

PM: 30 Min Easy @ 65-70% (140-150)

Thursday: Easy Day

PM: 30 Min @ 70-75% 155-160

Friday: Work Day

AM: Rest

PM: 60 Min Easy @ 75-80% 160-165 + 5 X 100m strides

Saturday: Easy Day

AM: 30 Min Easy @ 65-70% (140-150)

PM: Cross Train??? (never mentioned?)

Sunday: Long Run

AM: Long Run 90 Min Easy @70-70% (145-155)

PM: Rest

I still have a couple questions I really want to know:

1. How much rest should I have between the 5 X 100m strides?

2. Are those heart rates okay? Or should they be lower? (I did it off of my 202-205 MHR)

3.When can I start doubles? (I plan to double around June once I hit around 50 MPW)

4. I plan on doing one 5K every month (May 24, June 26, July 20 or so) to prepare for racing. They are races that I want to do. (our XC team does them to prepare for season) to see how fit I am. Is that okay? I know I won't have a kick or anything, but I hope I can at keep steady pace all the way (By july)rather than having a 5:30 1st mile, and end at a freaking 6:30.

5. (dumb question, but still...) It's hot and humid a lot in Florida, especially in the summer (where I run), so I will follow my heart rate, not the pace. I should stay in my zone (I.E. 160-165) or a specific rate (Ex. 163)

VERY IMPORTANT: Should I run ALL 7 days a week? Or should I take a day off once a week? I know it's not intense running, but still. How about down weeks? If not then how often should I have a rest day? I Really need to know this, I don't want to overtrain or anything.

Also, is it good to have a long run? Or should my work days be long runs? Is it just fine the way it is now?

Sorry for asking lot, but I really want to make sure I'm running with a plan confident that I WILL improve and build an aerobic base that will allow me to train to get to 16:XX or lower.

I appreciate anyone who answers takes the time to answer these questions :)

Bump

Anyone?

I really need to know this

That's so 90's.There is a big difference between a high-school junior running 20-30 mpw, and elite runners.When he becomes a decent runner, then he can attempt more sophisticated training. But now it will hinder more than help.

embrace the new, bro wrote:

there's a reason why no elites or even decent runners use such a system. because it's a waste of time.

you can build up mileage, endurance, and stamina while ALSO working on the important parts necessary to run fast. Because that's what it's all about anyway, right? Running fast?

I'm upping the mileage each week though (except every 4th week of course) so I will be 50-60 MPW by Mid June, and 60-70 MPW around July or sooner.

What I want to know is the questions I asked on my last posts.

For me, you ask too many questions. If you want to improve your endurance, spend some time now and focus on increasing mileage.

The reason you shouldn't worry about speed, is because you might start asking a lot of unimportant questions like, how many, how fast, how much rest, etc.

The single most important thing to do is to get your mileage up from 20-30 mpw, to around 70 mpw.

1) You can take or leave strides. If you want to do them, do them before the run, when you are fresher. Do shorter strides, like 10 seconds. Take long breaks between, like 3 minutes.

2) The HRs are fine. You might find you have trouble keeping the HR down. Most people complained the HR's are too low (or the speed rather).

3) Doubles? Next year, or after cross-country. Get to 70 mpw first. Then I'm assuming you have a coach that will train you for cross-country season.

4) 5K races once a month is perfect.

5) I didn't see a question. The idea of specifying HR is to target an approximate effort. You might want to adjust your HR target a few beats higher (5-10?) to compensate for the heat, but only if the heat doesn't become a problem. If the days are too hot, might be better to run in the mornings.

For this phase, since the paces are easy, you can build up to 7 days a week, and don't really require down weeks, since the recovery requirement remains low.

Cross training? Why not. Summer in Florida might be hot, but you are young and should have fun. Swimming in a pool, cycling, playing soccer, weight-lifting, boxing, karate, ... -- any physical activity doesn't hurt. If you are worried about speed, games like soccer can be viewed as a kind of "fartlek" training.

Some more thoughts:

In Hadd's long document, eventually he recommended a 10K session with 25x(200m faster, 200m slower). This can be seen as an easy kind of speed work you might replace on one of your intensity days.

When I say you don't need down weeks, it's only when the intensity is low. If you get insecure, and start adding speed sessions, the recovery requirement goes up, and you might want to insert an easy week. I still say though, don't add speed until you have at least 6 consecutive weeks at 70 mpw.

Warning you know i had the same exact idea last year this time i was a 1:58/4:10 guy and i figured I could work on my aerobic capacity with HADD's program and it did not work i ended up hurt and stale from allot of slogging milage spent the whole year trying to play catch up with teammates and did not improve at all certainly going down to slightly lower milage with more upper aerobic capacity work like others on here were talking about.

TL; DR, HADD makes you slow, from personal experience.

Okay, now I'm very confused.

Should I do this plan or not? I really want to get fast, and I know from my 5K splits I need aerobic conditioning

(Splits: 5:33, 6:00, 6:29, No joke!)

So I can run something along the lines of...

(Ex Splits: 5:28, 5:30, 5:31 or so)

And if you did 4:10, you were probably already extremely aerobic.

And what about Phase 2a and 2b? When and how do I do those.

Forgot to add:

But I don't want to get injured/hurt. I always ice my legs (literally stick EACH leg at a time in a bucket of ICE water for 15-20 minutes)

Yeah but if you ran 1:58 and 4:10 then you need totally different training than a 5 minute miler.

OP: your plan is fine. Just do it and don't take any time off if you don't need it. As for rest days, you should do them as needed but not more than once per week unless you have an injury scare.

You will not lose any speed. You have none to lose and it doesn't matter anyway. During XC you only need enough speed to run 5:30 pace. Just build your mileage to the 50-60 range, then just stay at 60. 70 is too much. You can run 70 mpw later. Much better to run 50 mpw than to try to run 70 and overdo it.

You can also safely ignore Kinvera as you are not a 1:58/4:10 guy. His experience is personally limited to him. We can't rule out he did something wrong, and now blames Hadd.

If you safely build up your mileage, the 20 or so weeks to cross-country, no way you will hurt yourself or become stale (unless you include speed sessions). If you increase your mileage from 20-30 mpw, to 70 mpw, no way you will play "catch up" with your teammates the rest of the year. For an easy mileage and endurance buildup program limited to the few months between now and cross-country, no way you will suffer any kind of permanent speed loss.