About a year ago I was diagnosed with low testosterone. I guess it's the current 'in thing' these days for docs to look for in men over 40. I didn't have any noticeable sexual dysfunction, but I was noticing abnormal fatigue and so on. I probably didn't need it, and my doc went all out, bypassing the creams, and giving me a prescription for Delatestryl, an injectable pure testosterone.
So, as a distance runner, I obviously considered the possibility that this prescription might have the side-effect of being a PED, although my admittedly limited knowledge of this stuff would suggest that it would clearly enhance any activity requiring explosive power and raw strength, but I didn't (and still do not) see the connection to distance running.
I did some research, and tried a reasonable dosing schedule that was a fair amount more than required for low-T, but not at the level of someone looking to bulk up. This trial lasted about 10 weeks.
Results: I gained a little over 10lbs, going from about 135lbs to 145-ish (I'm 5'10"), although I touched no weights. My biceps went from a typical distance runner's size of 12.5" to 13.25" (again, zero weights, push-ups, or anything). My RHR increased (a known side-effect of testosterone). My running got worse; more than the expected amount from the weight gain. I just got out of breath at the strangest times.
I am not a terrible runner for my age (44), still able to run 5k in low 17s, but I expected something positive to happen regarding my fitness level, since I hear of elites using this as a PED. It would not be worth the risk without some sort of gain.
When I ceased using testosterone, my fitness slowly came back, as my testosterone levels slowly decreased. Why did testosterone use actually cause negative results with my distance running?
Testosterone and long distance running
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Not AlSal wrote:
Why did testosterone use actually cause negative results with my distance running?
Because distance running is for girls. -
You wont see a huge increase in performance. I think the only thing it may help is in recovery.
Weight gain is the major issue with running or cycling and Test.
Go to T-nation and read some of what these guys have to say.
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum -
AnonymousPseudonym wrote:
Go to T-nation and read some of what these guys have to say.
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum
Yeah, I've been there and all the other online forums dedicated to weight training and mass building and so on, and no one has a clue about competitive distance running. They are the type of people that call running "doing cardio." It's just a secondary activity to them to burn fat.
Don't get me wrong, I learned a lot about the different types of anabolics, and how 'cycles' work and so on. But, I need to know the story from a distance runner standpoint. -
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/diet/weighteffect?metres=5000&hr=0&min=17&sec=0&weight=145&weightunits=lbs&Submit=Calculate
because you gained 10 pounds. at 135 that's an extra 7.4%of your total weight. the test helps muscle recovery and can help with racing mindset, but the extra weight makes a big difference to your vo2max.
Not AlSal wrote:
Results: I gained a little over 10lbs, going from about 135lbs to 145-ish (I'm 5'10"), although I touched no weights.My running got worse; more than the expected amount from the weight gain. I just got out of breath at the strangest times.
I am not a terrible runner for my age (44), still able to run 5k in low 17s, but I expected something positive to happen regarding my fitness level, since I hear of elites using this as a PED. It would not be worth the risk without some sort of gain.
Why did testosterone use actually cause negative results with my distance running? -
kadoo wrote:because you gained 10 pounds. at 135 that's an extra 7.4%of your total weight. the test helps muscle recovery and can help with racing mindset, but the extra weight makes a big difference to your vo2max.]
Re-read my post. I've bolding the part you might have missed down below. I have run competitively (at least, at my level) for a decade, and have been though various weight gain within that range often. I know the drill with performance at given weights. There was something else there. I felt like my stamina (and I use that word specifically, as it really seems to fit the feeling) was eroding.
This seems so odd, as the side-effects of using testosterone (even at the levels I was injecting, which was FAR more than you would receive even if soaked in a bath of Androgel all day) should be general increased energy, well-being, and so on. I'm supposed to feel a little younger, not even older and more tired. It's a direct, expected result of it, along with increased libido/harder erections and all that.
I'm wondering if running 70 - 80 miles a week in a structured program is somehow killing any effect I was supposed to get in terms of energy, and maybe making it worse for reasons I don't understand. I'm 44, so perhaps something else is going on. All I noticed was a little weight gain, which was similar to the winter 7-8lbs I almost always put on, and then drop in the spring. Not some crazy, never-dealt with fluctuation for me.
Not AlSal wrote:
Results: I gained a little over 10lbs, going from about 135lbs to 145-ish (I'm 5'10"), although I touched no weights.My running got worse; more than the expected amount from the weight gain. I just got out of breath at the strangest times.
I am not a terrible runner for my age (44), still able to run 5k in low 17s, but I expected something positive to happen regarding my fitness level, since I hear of elites using this as a PED. It would not be worth the risk without some sort of gain.
Why did testosterone use actually cause negative results with my distance running? -
Obvious Choice wrote:...
Sorry about the confusion, I posted under a different handle in another thread. I'm obviously the same person.
Hoping to get more opinions on this, maybe from someone with a background in what may be happening physiologically. -
Not AlSal wrote:
Why did testosterone use actually cause negative results with my distance running?
Why are you assuming it did, other than by increasing your body weight? When you first started running, how good were you after just 10 weeks? Then don't expect to adjust to a drastic increase in body weight in just 10 weeks either.
As for supplementing, low testosterone is just one more thing doctors needlessly throw drugs at. Good diet and lifestyle can maintain high testosterone naturally, even if you're not genetically predisposed to it.
One thing that causes low testosterone is a low-fat diet. Natural bodybuilder Hugo Rivera says you need about 20% fat by calorie. Then there's lack of sleep, lack of resistance exercise, and vitamin deficiencies. -
How much were using and how often?
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You may be more fast twitch than slow twitch, so as your body got swoled from the increased test, your muscles adapted as they were genetically designed to do.
Go lift some weights and get swole, get into cross fit. Tag some tail brah, you aint supposed to be running long distance. -
you n*gga hows your pipe?
You got them white boy test levels, suddenly you get a little boost you must have noticed a difference in your pipe. -
Some serious advice: try higher mileage. As has been said recovery is going to be enhanced. If you ran yourself down to a lower weight, you might find a benefit.
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Testosterone won't cause you to gain weight unless you're also running a caloric surplus. So you either ate more or exercised less both of which might have had an effect.
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You're 5'10 and 135 pounds as a 44yo? Dude, obsess much? That is NOT normal.
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Not A Duck wrote:
You're 5'10 and 135 pounds as a 44yo? Dude, obsess much? That is NOT normal.
I've always been thin. I started running at around age 30, and was a sedentary smoker for close to 15 years before that.
I'm assuming you are either trolling, or are one of those clueless people that think all thin people actually give a sh!t about their weight, and have to work at keeping it there. I ate whatever I want, still do, and whatever I weigh is whatever I weigh.
In other words (if you still don't comprehend the gist of what I am gently explaining to you), there are lots of people (like me) who gravitated to distance running partially because they already naturally have a body and metabolism that is geared towards it, in comparison to say, sumo wrestling. -
What else changed? wrote:
Testosterone won't cause you to gain weight unless you're also running a caloric surplus. So you either ate more or exercised less both of which might have had an effect.
Well, partially correct. Testosterone injections commonly cause water retention. This is not really a caloric surplus at all, rather, it is water that didn't leave my body in the percentage I was accustomed to. -
Old doc wrote:
How much were using and how often?
200mg 2x weekly (so 400mg a week total), which is much higher that what is used for low-T (usually around 100mg-200mg every two weeks).
This may seem like a lot, but it is much lower than the standard "beginner's cycles" when using them for weightlifting / bodybuilding.
My aim was to do enough to start seeing definite effects beyond the threshold of simple low-T dosages, but not enough to start developing substantial muscle mass. I think I got it about right, but I am surprised by the results. -
Not AlSal wrote:
Old doc wrote:
How much were using and how often?
200mg 2x weekly (so 400mg a week total), which is much higher that what is used for low-T (usually around 100mg-200mg every two weeks).
This may seem like a lot, but it is much lower than the standard "beginner's cycles" when using them for weightlifting / bodybuilding.
My aim was to do enough to start seeing definite effects beyond the threshold of simple low-T dosages, but not enough to start developing substantial muscle mass. I think I got it about right, but I am surprised by the results.
Next time, add a small amount of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastrozole. Perhaps .25 mgs on M/W/F or .5mgs on M & Thurs. Aim to keep your e2 in the 20-30 range and enjoy the benefits of higher testosterone--faster recovery and higher hematocrit--without the excess water weight. -
Wow! 6.5 mg/kg/wk. You were researching in the wrong places when looking at BB forums; those knuckleheads use much much more than they need to.
1 mg/kg/wk is plenty as a therapeutic replacement dose, and that would likely net a T level around twice what you were at if you were hypogonadal (below the low normal range).
Dial it WAY back (to 1 mg/kg/wk, just 60-70 mg per wk) and you will feel dramatically better as a runner. Many patients think more is better and that is just not the case unless you want to be a gorilla. Talk to your doctor, that's what we are there for. -
Cheez! 400 mg. That's a reasonable amount for a bodybuilder. I take 250 mg per week which gives me a nice amount of muscles and strength, helps me get rid of body fat and acts as a male contraceptive as well. Been doing it for a couple of years and have no plans of ever quitting. Makes me feel good and there is no aggression or rage as some people think testosterone will do that to you. I plan on running a marathon later this year (done it before and I'd just like to do a sub 4 hour, I'm 230 lbs btw). Never done it with the testosterone though. Came here because I was googling for running and testosterone... Just felt like chippin' in.
