Would anyone be interested in an outline of Salazar's training philosophy?

There is no "philosophy" of Salazar's approach as far as I can see. He just does what works best based on years of his own experience, and observing other runners, and what he has learned from other coaches. Bill Bellicek doesn't have a philosophy. Why would Salazar?

ryan foreman wrote:

There is no "philosophy" of Salazar's approach as far as I can see. He just does what works best based on years of his own experience, and observing other runners, and what he has learned from other coaches. Bill Bellicek doesn't have a philosophy. Why would Salazar?

Alright, don't call it a philosophy then. Call it a methodology or whatever you want. It is what it is, take it or leave it

What would be the motivation behind running the "easy" runs so fast? Will that change when/if Rupp and Farah take a shot at a marathon?

EasyDoesn'tDoIt? wrote:

What would be the motivation behind running the "easy" runs so fast? Will that change when/if Rupp and Farah take a shot at a marathon?

Salazar believes that running too slow during easy days is a waste of time and you're just "burning calories". By going faster, you're geting a greater aerobic benefit from the run, and you will still be able to recover from the harder sessions. This allows Salazar's program to include relatively high mileage as well as quality for most days of the week, which is one of the reasons why his athletes have had so much success.

NOP follower wrote:

EasyDoesn'tDoIt? wrote:

What would be the motivation behind running the "easy" runs so fast? Will that change when/if Rupp and Farah take a shot at a marathon?

Salazar believes that running too slow during easy days is a waste of time and you're just "burning calories". By going faster, you're geting a greater aerobic benefit from the run, and you will still be able to recover from the harder sessions. This allows Salazar's program to include relatively high mileage as well as quality for most days of the week, which is one of the reasons why his athletes have had so much success.

I have a problem with this. My 5K pace is 5:20/mile. If we use the suggested (+1:30), that means I have to run 6:50/mile on my easy days. No way I could do that consistently and still recover. I'm closer to 7:30 pace on easy days.

mgm wrote:

I have a problem with this. My 5K pace is 5:20/mile. If we use the suggested (+1:30), that means I have to run 6:50/mile on my easy days. No way I could do that consistently and still recover. I'm closer to 7:30 pace on easy days.

The rationale is that aerobic running is aerobic running, and you'll still be recovering whether you're running 6:50s or 7:30s. The difference is that you'll be getting more of an aerobic benefit from the 6:50s, because you're at the upper end of the aerobic zone.

Do you struggle with 6:50 pace? If you try running that pace for a couple of weeks, you may find that it isn't so hard to sustain.

NOP follower wrote:

I don't plan on making a training regimen, just his philosophy on periodization, when to do workouts, lifting, form, etc. I know of a few workouts that he uses frequently during every training period, and since he believes in repeating workouts, it may be enough. The whole point of doing this would be so people can make their own schedule based on his philosophy.

NOP, can you post some of the workouts that you "know he uses frequently through cycles"? I think that would be extremely beneficial.

Also, thanks for gathering a lot of this.

SMNRunner wrote:

NOP, can you post some of the workouts that you "know he uses frequently through cycles"? I think that would be extremely beneficial.

Also, thanks for gathering a lot of this.

No problem. Salazar has stated that he uses these workouts every year, and frequently throughout the season. The rest, intensity, and volume varies depending on the time of year

2-4 x 600 breakdown (600 and 400: 1500 pace, 300: 2 sec faster than 1500 pace, 200: 6 sec faster than 1500 pace; Rest: 90 sec, 75 sec, 60 sec; 2 min rest between sets)

2-4 x 1200, 800, 400 (3K pace, 1500 pace, 800 pace; 2:30 rest between reps, 4 min between sets)

6 x 1600 (10K pace; 400 jog rest)

Hard Long Runs up to 18 miles

He usually throws in 10-15 200s at the end of workouts ~400 pace, with 200 jog rest

Sorry that I don't know too many, but when it comes to workout specifics, it's very hard to find info

mgm wrote:

I have a problem with this. My 5K pace is 5:20/mile. If we use the suggested (+1:30), that means I have to run 6:50/mile on my easy days. No way I could do that consistently and still recover. I'm closer to 7:30 pace on easy days.

you need to understand that 1:30 slower than 5:20/mi is a big difference from 1:30 slower than 4:12/mi. for a 13:00 5K guy, 5:45/mi, give or take, will give the proper sensation for a run that will elicit regeneration and still give just enough stimulation for fitness to at least not deteriorate in between specific workouts. if you can't sustain this pace day in and day out, with some exceptions naturally, you are likely doing your specific workouts a little bit too hard.

scaling to a 5:20/mi 5K guy, the equivalent pace would be...surprise, surprise, about 7:25 pace.

Maybe there's a difference between an easy, aerobic base or maintenance day and a true recovery day after a hard track effort? Just a thought.

NOP follower wrote:

No problem. Salazar has stated that he uses these workouts every year, and frequently throughout the season. The rest, intensity, and volume varies depending on the time of year

2-4 x 600 breakdown (600 and 400: 1500 pace, 300: 2 sec faster than 1500 pace, 200: 6 sec faster than 1500 pace; Rest: 90 sec, 75 sec, 60 sec; 2 min rest between sets)

2-4 x 1200, 800, 400 (3K pace, 1500 pace, 800 pace; 2:30 rest between reps, 4 min between sets)

6 x 1600 (10K pace; 400 jog rest)

Hard Long Runs up to 18 miles

He usually throws in 10-15 200s at the end of workouts ~400 pace, with 200 jog rest

Sorry that I don't know too many, but when it comes to workout specifics, it's very hard to find info

you are not thinking this through ...

In the first workout:

Rupp runs 3:34, so that pace is 28.5 for 200, ...

so his 200s would be at 22.5. I don't think he could run one of those. But there is no way that he could run one after a 1:26 600, a :57 400 and a :41 300 all with short rests. Then rest 2:00 and repeat it 3 times.

Also both of them can clearly run 50-point at least for the 400. Maybe much faster even though Malmo says no way. But if you give them 50-51 for 400...

the last workout would be 10-15 X 200 at 25-26 with 1:00 rest. They could certainly do this workout fresh (for 10 reps) but no way they can do this at the END of another workout with such short rest.

When people work on speed they generally run 50s, 100s, 150s with complete recovery. maybe 6-8 reps, maybe at their level 10-12 if the sprints are 100m or less. Stretching that to 200 and just letting the HR fall to 120-130 is a very hard workout.

Also, think about what you wrote:

"He usually throws in 10-15 200s at the end of workouts ~400 pace, with 200 jog rest"

That would be 30 laps of the track at the end of a workout? Only a 6x1600 workout takes 30 laps, are you gonna plop that on top of any kind of session? Even an easy 10? ludicrous.

Where are you getting this? Do you have a whole Book of Bad Ideas at home with you?

Flotrack has a workout in which he does 6x1600m in 4:30, and then switches into spikes and does 10x200m in 27-28, ends with 26. So thats the workout addition in practice.

very helpful and concise, thanks!

Love Skinny Legs wrote:

Also, think about what you wrote:

"He usually throws in 10-15 200s at the end of workouts ~400 pace, with 200 jog rest"

Flotrack has a workout in which he does 6x1600m in 4:30, and then switches into spikes and does 10x200m in 27-28, ends with 26. So thats the workout addition in practice.

That's interesting, but not what the OP wrote. HE said "He usually throws in 10-15 200s at the end of workouts ~400 pace, with 200 jog rest"

In this video did they jog a 200 and run 20 additional laps after the workout? Also, 28 is not his 400 pace, it is close to mile pace.

OP said 6 X 1600 at 10k pace also, 4:30 is 28:07 pace, or 10 mile pace.

I have no doubt that they do workouts "sort of" like what was listed, I did them myself, but not at the paces listed. Also, note that the OP says "He usually throws in 10-15 200s at the end of workouts ~400 pace, with 200 jog rest."

What is meant by usually? In my world it means it happens most of the time. Even if he meant once per week, I would not believe it.

The 1200 breakdown also looks extremely difficult. Including an 800 at 1500 pace right after 1200 at 3k pace? Whereas the 10k pace for 6x1600m looks pretty easy.

Alright I hadn't explained myself well, so that's my bad. For the 600 breakdown, when I say "6 sec faster than 1500 pace", I mean pace per 400. So if 1500 pace was 58, 6 sec faster is 52, so the 200 would be in 26.

In the Flotrack video where Rupp does 6 x 1600, they were doing that at 10K date pace, not goal pace. That video was shot during indoors, long before Rupp would do any 10Ks. Salazar has stated that he does a lot of work at date pace, and as they get closer to the goal race, they drop down the pace to 4:20 or lower.

When did I say that Mo and Rupp cannot run 50 point?

That 2-4 X {600,400,300,200} is not a Bowerman invention exactly, but it was HEAVILY used by him to train his milers and 3-milers 50 years ago.

Read "The Bowerman System".

This is good stuff. What are your sources?