Combined 800 & 1500 times

Fermin Cacho

1:45.37

3:28.95

Doesn't put him super high on the list, but 5:14.32 is top 20 (and pushes Webb out of the top 20)

runthecountry wrote:

Fermin Cacho

1:45.37

3:28.95

Doesn't put him super high on the list, but 5:14.32 is top 20 (and pushes Webb out of the top 20)

Cheers. I'll adjust again!

Using Toro's formula in which the 800 is weighted equally with the 1500, then this is the updated list.

1 1 S. Coe (UK) 01:41.7 03:29.8 03:10.7 03:29.8 06:40.5

2 2 A. Kiprop (KEN) 01:43.2 03:28.9 03:13.4 03:28.9 06:42.3

3 3 M. Baala (FRA) 01:43.2 03:29.0 03:13.4 03:29.0 06:42.4

4 6 S. Cram (UK) 01:42.9 03:29.7 03:12.9 03:29.7 06:42.6

5 8 W. Chirchir (KEN) 01:43.3 03:29.3 03:13.7 03:29.3 06:43.0

6 9 A. Laalou (MOR)* 01:43.2 03:29.5 03:13.6 03:29.5 06:43.1

7 15 A. Kaki (SUD) 01:42.2 03:31.8 03:11.7 03:31.8 06:43.4

8 4 N. Morceli (ALG) 01:44.8 03:27.4 03:16.5 03:27.4 06:43.9

9 7 N. Ngeny (KEN) 01:44.5 03:28.1 03:15.9 03:28.1 06:44.0

10= 12 S. Aouita (MOR) 01:43.9 03:29.5 03:14.7 03:29.5 06:44.2

10= 11 R. Ramzi (BRN/MOR)* 01:44.1 03:29.1 03:15.1 03:29.1 06:44.2

12= 20 Y. Saad-Kemal (BRD) 01:42.8 03:31.6 03:12.7 03:31.6 06:44.3

12= 13 L. Rotich (KEN) 01:43.7 03:29.9 03:14.4 03:29.9 06:44.3

14 14 W. Tanui (KEN) 01:43.4 03:30.6 03:13.8 03:30.6 06:44.4

15 5 B. Lagat (KEN) 01:46.0 03:26.3 03:18.8 03:26.3 06:45.1

16 21 A. WEBB (USA) 01:43.8 03:30.5 03:14.7 03:30.5 06:45.2

17 22 T. Makhloufi (ALG) 01:43.7 03:30.8 03:14.5 03:30.8 06:45.3

18 - J. Cruz (BRA) 01:41.8 03:34.6 03:10.9 03:34.6 06:45.5

19 16 S. Kiplagat (KEN) 01:44.8 03:29.3 03:16.5 03:29.3 06:45.8

20 23 S. Ovett (UK) 01:44.1 03:30.8 03:15.2 03:30.8 06:45.9

21 19 A. Choge (KEN) 01:44.9 03:29.5 03:16.7 03:29.5 06:46.2

22 17 V. Niyongabo(BDI) 01:45.1 03:29.2 03:17.1 03:29.2 06:46.3

23 26 B. Mansoor Ali (BRN) 01:44.0 03:31.5 03:15.0 03:31.5 06:46.5

24 18 F. Cacho (SPA) 01:45.4 03:29.0 03:17.6 03:29.0 06:46.6

25 24 R. Silva (SPA) 01:44.9 03:30.1 03:16.7 03:30.1 06:46.8

26= 10 H. EL-Guerrouj (MOR) 01:47.2 03:26.0 03:21.0 03:26.0 06:47.0

26= 25 A. Wheating (USA) 01:44.6 03:30.9 03:16.1 03:30.9 06:47.0

* banned for PED use.

[/quote][/quote]

Just realised Peter Elliott now gets back into the top 25 using Toro's more accurate/weighted method.

1 1 S. Coe (UK) 01:41.7 03:29.8 03:10.7 03:29.8 06:40.5

2 2 A. Kiprop (KEN) 01:43.2 03:28.9 03:13.4 03:28.9 06:42.3

3 3 M. Baala (FRA) 01:43.2 03:29.0 03:13.4 03:29.0 06:42.4

4 6 S. Cram (UK) 01:42.9 03:29.7 03:12.9 03:29.7 06:42.6

5 8 W. Chirchir (KEN) 01:43.3 03:29.3 03:13.7 03:29.3 06:43.0

6 9 A. Laalou (MOR)* 01:43.2 03:29.5 03:13.6 03:29.5 06:43.1

7 15 A. Kaki (SUD) 01:42.2 03:31.8 03:11.7 03:31.8 06:43.4

8 4 N. Morceli (ALG) 01:44.8 03:27.4 03:16.5 03:27.4 06:43.9

9 7 N. Ngeny (KEN) 01:44.5 03:28.1 03:15.9 03:28.1 06:44.0

10= 12 S. Aouita (MOR) 01:43.9 03:29.5 03:14.7 03:29.5 06:44.2

10= 11 R. Ramzi (BRN/MOR)* 01:44.1 03:29.1 03:15.1 03:29.1 06:44.2

12= 20 Y. Saad-Kemal (BRD) 01:42.8 03:31.6 03:12.7 03:31.6 06:44.3

12= 13 L. Rotich (KEN) 01:43.7 03:29.9 03:14.4 03:29.9 06:44.3

14 14 W. Tanui (KEN) 01:43.4 03:30.6 03:13.8 03:30.6 06:44.4

15 5 B. Lagat (KEN) 01:46.0 03:26.3 03:18.8 03:26.3 06:45.1

16 21 A. WEBB (USA) 01:43.8 03:30.5 03:14.7 03:30.5 06:45.2

17 22 T. Makhloufi (ALG) 01:43.7 03:30.8 03:14.5 03:30.8 06:45.3

18 - J. Cruz (BRA) 01:41.8 03:34.6 03:10.9 03:34.6 06:45.5

19 16 S. Kiplagat (KEN) 01:44.8 03:29.3 03:16.5 03:29.3 06:45.8

20 - P. Elliott (UK) 01:43.0 03:32.7 03:13.1 03:32.7 06:45.8

21 23 S. Ovett (UK) 01:44.1 03:30.8 03:15.2 03:30.8 06:45.9

22 19 A. Choge (KEN) 01:44.9 03:29.5 03:16.7 03:29.5 06:46.2

23 17 V. Niyongabo(BDI) 01:45.1 03:29.2 03:17.1 03:29.2 06:46.3

24 26 B. Mansoor Ali (BRN) 01:44.0 03:31.5 03:15.0 03:31.5 06:46.5

25 18 F. Cacho (SPA) 01:45.4 03:29.0 03:17.6 03:29.0 06:46.6

26 24 R. Silva (SPA) 01:44.9 03:30.1 03:16.7 03:30.1 06:46.8

27= 10 H. EL-Guerrouj (MOR) 01:47.2 03:26.0 03:21.0 03:26.0 06:47.0

27= 25 A. Wheating (USA) 01:44.6 03:30.9 03:16.1 03:30.9 06:47.0

* banned for PED use.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Multiplying the 800m times by 15/8 still favours the 1500m a little.

Abdi Bile 1:43.6 + 3:30.55

Deanouk wrote:

I was thinking the other day about ...

... Coe and Cram

when are you not thinking about Coe and Cram?

said88 wrote:

Multiplying the 800m times by 15/8 still favours the 1500m a little.

Does it? How come?

double talk wrote:

defintely use iaaf scoring table or something, doubling the 800 time won't be as accurate either, but you can find out the scores of the 1500 and 800 and then add them together for a better chart

Deanouk wrote:

Yes, I'll try it when I get a spare few hours! I think it will take a long time.

It shouldn't take longer than 10 minutes.

1) Copy and paste text to excel spreadsheet.

2) Convert text to columns.

3) Insert two columns for IAAF scores (800, 1500)

4) label header row. Random a,b,c,d.... will do.

5) Highlight header row and apply Data Filter

6) Sort 800 times

7) Fill in IAAF scores next to it.

8) Sort 1500 times

9) Fill in IAAF scores.

10) add Scoring total columns for 800+1500 scores.

11) Sort totals high to low.

Done.

Fundamental wrote:

Surprised to see Baala so high on the list. He didn't really achieve a great deal, compared to some of the bigger names around him on that list, in terms of medals and victories.

I think that you are being pretty harsh on Baala.

He was 4th (as a 22 yo behind El G, Lagat, and Ngeny) and 3rd in two Olympics 8 years apart (2000 and 2008).

He won 2 European championship golds at 1500m (2002 and 2006) - in comparison Coe won none.

He was 2nd behind El Guerrouj in the 2003 1500m World Champs - in comparison guys like Coe and Ovett never won any medals at World Champs.

The main thing that makes him different for his era is that he was a 1500m specialist who made some more serious attempts at the 800m later on his career. El Guerrouj, Morceli, and Lagat did not seem to do this and this may have been due to timetable changes in the major champs which did not allow a middle distance specialist to use the 800m as a speed build up to prepare for the 1500m as Ovett, Coe, and even Walker used to do.

Honorable mention:

Darkhorse David Krummenacker just misses the unadjusted list with a 5:15.83.

No disservice was intended towards Baala. If anything it was meant as a compliment. He is not as well known as many of the names below him, so to be above them is impressive.

Don't really see the significance of comparing his 2 European golds to Coe, who only ran in one European 1500 and got silver. Coe's 2 Olympic golds at the event trump Baala's double European, at a time when European titles were worth a lot less than they had been 20 years previous.

As for lack of medals by Coe & Ovett in the World Championships, they didn't have them during their peak years, and Coe never contested any. The first one was in 83, when. OS was 27 and Ovett 28. Thereafter they were held every 4 years. Baala had the opportunity to contest them every 2 years from the very beginning of his career. So there wasn't a level playing field when it comes to comparing their records in Worlds.

Had they had them in 77, 79, 81, etc, then you can guarantee both Coe & Ovett would have won several. In fact the World Cup was considered a pre-cursor to the World Champs, and Ovett won 2 golds, while Coe won gold and silver.

Deanouk wrote:

said88 wrote:

Multiplying the 800m times by 15/8 still favours the 1500m a little.

Does it? How come?

Another question: Why should we multiply the 800m times by 15/8? Because 15/8*800m=1500m? Hm.

Both distances, 800m and 1500m should have an equivalent influence when we add them to one number. Since 800m is run faster than 1500m, multiplying the 800m time by 15/8 doesn't do the job. A better multiplier would be: 206/100,91=2,0414 (the world record times divided). But I still doubt this factor would do the job, because I don't think the two records are at the same level. The 800m record should be very close to 1:40 to have the same level than the 1500m record (and, yes, I also doubt little bit if this record was done without the use of PEDs), I think. But still 2,041 is much better than 15/8=1,875. But I would opt more for 2,06 or something like this.

Maybe we should calculate the average time for the first 100 or 1000 athletes in both events, and than divide them. But I don't think it's so important, and I will definitely not do the job.

That I have forgotten about Abdi Bile...

for guys who don't run 800 much, we can use 1k as a substitute if it's better than 800 & mile as a substitute for 1500 if it is better

noah's 2'11.9/3'43.4 on iaaf points comes out highest combined points ever, beating coe's 1'41.7/3'29.7 by ~ 20 points, 2542 to 2520

[/quote]

Updated to include Bile.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Ok, I have now re-arranged the list based on IAAF points. There is not much change at the top, but quite a bit of movement further down the table. Hope this now gives a more equal parity/weight to 800 times.

1. S. Coe (UK) 1:41.73 1270.0 03:29.77 1248.0 2518

2. A. Kiprop(KEN) 1:43.15 1227.0 03:28.88 1261.0 2488

3. M. Baala (FRA) 1:43.15 1227.0 03:28.98 1259.0 2486

4. S. Cram (UK) 1:42.88 1235.0 03:29.67 1249.0 2484

5. W. Chirchir (KEN) 1:43.33 1222.0 03:29.29 1255.0 2477

6. A. Kaki (SUD) 1:42.23 1255.0 03:31.76 1220.0 2475

7. Y. Saad-Kemal(BRD) 1:42.79 1238.0 03:31.56 1223.0 2461

8. N. Morceli (ALG) 1:44.79 1178.0 03:27.37 1282.0 2460

9. N. Ngeny (KEN) 1:44.49 1187.0 03:28.12 1272.0 2459

10= L. Rotich (KEN) 1:43.65 1212.0 03:29.91 1246.0 2458

10= S. Aouita (MOR) 1:43.86 1206.0 03:29.47 1252.0 2458

12. W. Tanui (KEN) 1:43.37 1220.0 03:30.58 1236.0 2456

13. A..Bile.(SOM) 1:43.60 1213.0 03:30.55 1237.0 2450

14. J. Cruz (BRA) 1:41.77 1269.0 03:34.63 1180.0 2449

15= T. Makhloufi(ALG) 1:43.71 1210.0 03:30.80 1233.0 2443

15= A. Webb (USA) 1:43.84 1206.0 03:30.54 1237.0 2443

17= P. Elliott (UK) 1:42.97 1232.0 03:32.69 1207.0 2439

17= B. Lagat (KEN) 1:46.00 1142.0 03:26.34 1297.0 2439

19. S. Ovett (UK) 1:44.09 1199.0 03:30.77 1234.0 2433

20. S. Kiplagat (KEN) 1:44.80 1177.0 03:29.27 1255.0 2432

21. A. Choge (KEN) 1:44.86 1176.0 03:29.47 1252.0 2428

22. B. Mansoor-Ali(BRN) 1:44.02 1201.0 03:31.49 1224.0 2425

23. V. Niyongabo (BDI) 1:45.13 1168.0 03:29.18 1256.0 2424

24. F. Cacho (SPA) 1:45.37 1160.0 03:28.95 1260.0 2420

25. R. Silva (SPA) 1:44.91 1174.0 03:30.07 1244.0 2418

26. A. Wheating (USA) 1:44.56 1185.0 03:30.90 1232.0 2417

27. H. EL-Guerrouj (MOR) 1:47.18 1108.0 03:26.00 1302.0 2410

Banned for PED use:-

A. Laalou (MOR) 1:43.25 1224.0 03:29.53 1251.0 2475

R. Ramzi (MOR)) 1:44.05 1200.0 03:29.14 1257.0 2457

If one takes Ngeny's superior Mile mark of 3:43.40 instead of his 1500pb, then the 1272 points are replaced with 1288, giving him a total of 2475. This would move him up 2 places and put him =6 with Kaki.

I'll try and do another one including the 1000m & Mile in the near future.

Impressive work and list. Good to see you've removed the drug cheats.