RE: Are men nowadays giving up on women?

No. That's what guys like to think. It's only true in rare cases where a guy completely didn't take care of himself at 22, was blessed with good aging genetics and went all-out to try and improve his appearance later in life. All other things being equal (i.e. if he made the same effort when he was 22), he'd be better looking at 22.

Also, it's easier to meet women and get laid when you're younger because women are more outgoing and energetic.

A good looking 35 year old man is dating 25 (low end) - 35 year old women. It’s extremely easy to meet women in that age bracket. I’m going to 2 weddings this summer alone reflecting that (35 and 25, and 35 and 29). Last year it was a 40 and 32.

Regardless, reading your posts I don’t move in your circles where people are experiencing notable declines in energy or appearance by 35 (men or women). It sounds tragic. In the same way that I can’t identify with the world view of lads who can’t meet women and think it requires being some unrealistic standard.

As for 22 vs 35, I agree with the principle of your point, but I’d bump the lower age by a few years unless you’re strictly talking about dating college aged women.

Too funny...talk about Blue pill delusional thinking - "Men grossly overestimate their attractiveness and feel entitled to women way out of their league?" Lol. You've got to be kidding - it is completely the other way around.

You must living in a cave (or trolling) - completely obvious to Black pill reality with today's dating market.

Wheat Waffles - Black pill content = 130k subscribers.

He isn't wrong about guys needing to give up porn and video games.

Most women in their 20s and 30s are career-oriented and focused on growing their brand. That has more ROI than porn and video games. Plus a lot of them are more successful and able to pull in likes and social media cred more than guys--even though most average guys don't care about that stuff, those guys that do are worse-off compared to women in terms of being able to pull in social media followers. (If you are a guy in the media biz or entertainment usually a lot of the big social follows are females). And a lot of them say #thefutureisfemale so there's that.

If men in the 18-30 age group focus on education, $ and success, good things will come to them. Too many guys give up education-wise (I'm from CLE; I've seen it often in certain areas) and/or don't try hard enough (video games and low-wage jobs). In fairness, sometimes the savvier women have better connections to jobs and social media than guys do in certain markets (coastal, for instance).

Tucker Carlson had it right--the education system is geared toward female success more so than male success nowadays. If men need to compete and be great again in the corporate world, they need to put education and career above all other passions...but still be good to others.

The '80s and '90s were a GREAT time for corporate men--but then things changed and it threw everything out of whack.

Wow, I've never heard of black-pilling before, only red and blue pilling.

The incel/MRA rabbit hole runs deep. I get their angst but some of them are as bitter as the feminists they deride.

It's all new to me. And the more I find out about it, the more I understand why a lot of women might want to steer clear.

Kind of an aside, but a sincere one, I have been watching and am in total awe of how much fat women give of themselves. I am not talking about Gilbert Grapes' mom. But in school support/ civic life /volunteerism, they appear to "make the rocking world go round"

Fewer and fewer men are going to be able to overcome the sexist, racist, heterophobic caste system enshrined and enforced by law. "Put education and career above all other passions," exist only to make your black lesbian affirmative action boss look good, and "still be good to others," or in other words, you have to actively work against your own kind and promote the system, and you'll be first to be blamed and/or fired. When the women don't have children, and the men can't/won't work, then that's a dead civilization that is going to be replaced by another.

That's a good point at the end. Birth rates are declining.

I think corporate females are the most successful right now and secure, but as you noted, the corporate hierarchy is set up differently, to be diplomatic about it.

Men not being slackers would be a good start but then I re-read your post and thought of something else--some guys may be tired of trying to be the perfect corporate worker if it won't get him advancement and he gets passed over for *other* candidates. So maybe this resignation is why more guys are noping out and playing video games or just doing their own things--or taking lower-paying jobs out of not caring anymore. I work in HR/recruiting now and am reading articles that women at the top are also experiencing career isolation (just as former male power execs did years ago).

Well, I know you don't need a podcast for anything, but they are nice because during a long run, normal people get sick of listening to music after a while. Plus a good conversation between two intelligent people, especially when they have slightly different opinions, can really be both entertaining and informative.

I think we all feel and sense these cultural changes very clearly but having two experts break it down is nice. There were a lot of details and statistic I was surprised by. Great listen that got me through some good mileage (I only listen to podcasts while running).

No, Jamin, a 22 year old "man" is often just a young, video-game-playing, bro-dude with not much going for him in terms of career, money, worldly-knowledge, house, wardrobe, connections, perspective, or deep physical strength.

At 22, we are full of potential. By 35, we should be at or reaching our peak. I think a lot of people find that more attractive than the average frat bro...

I have seen very significant changes in the corporate culture where i work over the last decade or so, and I work for a large public agency.

One thing I have seen, though, is that for the guy (or person) who actually really knows their sh_t, they are more valuable than ever. A lot of people nowadays don't really have the necessary skills or experience, so the ones who do, really shine and it makes it hard for them to let those people go.

Well, men are not better at school or college anymore, so there is one area...

45 years ago the gender gap for four-year college degrees was 13% (more men than women). Now, in basically two generations, it is 15%... 15% more women!

As soon as they were granted access to colleges (and could choose when and how often to get pregnant), women kicked our butts in college degree getting. Hats off to them.

And if I were a college educated woman, I would be very wary about dating a guy who didn't either have a solid career or college degree. Why would any grown woman seriously date some random guy working part-time at an Arby's at the mall?

The number of gender studies and sociology degrees given should not be a positive Nor does choosing such degrees kick butts. Women are mostly hired because of diversity measures and quotas. I give them that win. They are more savy politically

I remember when I was a freshman in college and I had a major crush for the first time. This was around 2011 or 2012. Naturally I turned to Google for relationship advice and one of the first results was Return of Kings. I then proceeded to squander the next four years and a few after on advice that advocated being a total prick based off what could charitably be called pseudoscience. It took unlearning and ignoring that tripe to get a nice GF who I am happy with.

I find it striking that the exact same scene of "dating" advice still exists, just shifted a half-step over. It really is the same old script but some vocab words have fallen out of favor while some new ones have been introduced. I expect to still see this thread getting bumped 10 years from now, only the posters will refer to themselves as "apotheosized" instead of "red pilled" or some other sh*t.

This.

Men need to do better. Get educated, get smarter and get their mojo back. It seems more Millennial women are goal-oriented. Even from elementary school on, when they were back in the '90s, a lot of them were always getting better grades.

And Gen Xers now (men and women) are the cream of the crop and have $$$.

The world has changed so much.

Some of the twins and femboi's are more feminine than the women.

The IG women are of no interest.

Be curious

That Return of the Kings guy is some kind of religious monk now. Chateau Heartiste, Dalrock, Vox Day, Rational Male... the glory days of the Internet were circa 2015. Then the left took over Big Tech and cracked down. It worked for a little while, but it is working no more.

I remember Heartiste. I also remember years ago you could get DVDs about the PUA community and how to talk to women. It was hardcore and people were lapping it up. Around '16 the internet totally changed, even Facebook. Things are much less organic now.