OMG, I totally wish Paula Radcliffe gets caught/outted.

rekrunner wrote:

OK, good luck with this approach.

DHT123 wrote:

Correct about a CAS panel. But that's not the point I am making....

Yep, that’s right, ignore the content of what I wrote, which basically disproved all your conjecture in your previous post. Good job.

DHT123 wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

OK, good luck with this approach.

Yep, that’s right, ignore the content of what I wrote, which basically disproved all your conjecture in your previous post. Good job.

yes anything that is damaging to his argument he refuses to read...at least he has matured to the point where he doesnt have things deleted anymore, that was annoying.

wait till its proven that the 4% shoes do give 4% gains, he will argue that as well

sh*t i am willing to bett, that if paula herself came out and admitted to years of EPO, handed over the highly detailed notebooks on her PED protocol etc, rek would yell and argue with her lolz

"NO NO NO PAULA!! EPO doesnt work!!! HAVENT YOU READ MY MAGNA OPUS!?!?!?"

"um sir you need to calm down i dont know who you are, but yes i took EPO and it was a miracle worker, im admitting my guilt"

"NO NO NO NO NO, LIAR!!!!"

lolz

Rektrunner wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

Really, you were only pushing the "only vitamins" "zinc, B12 isn't illegal" line.

"Vitamins", reminds me of east Germany giving their swimmers "Vitamins".

You mean Vitamin T as in Turinabol? ?

Still not much info on the topic, but Spanish papers and police reports also said that they found Aden with many kinds of vitamins. Looks like some vitamins are illegal in Spain.

Subway Surfers wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

If you want to know what I think, you should only read my posts, as anyone else speaking for me generally tends to get something wrong.

There are not many updates on Aden, but the Spanish papers and police reports said the EPO was found in Mounir's room.

Really, you were only pushing the "only vitamins" "zinc, B12 isn't illegal" line.

It's all irrelevant gossip, that belongs more in a hair salon, so I don't want to lose too much time, if there is no connection to doping or performance. Suppose you are right, and she lied about everything -- the result is the same because objective evidence clears her in every case. The judge wouldn't find her an unreliable witness, because she wouldn't even be called, and there would be no court case. You can't disprove conjecture with your own conjecture. I still don't see the contradiction or incompatibility in 2004, let alone the relevance. Some of your content is fake science, like what to expect after 30-60 minutes, with some conjecture that the test may have been 90-120 minutes after the race, thrown in for good measure.

DHT123 wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

OK, good luck with this approach.

Yep, that’s right, ignore the content of what I wrote, which basically disproved all your conjecture in your previous post. Good job.

Wreckrunner wrote:

Rektrunner wrote:

"Vitamins", reminds me of east Germany giving their swimmers "Vitamins".

You mean Vitamin T as in Turinabol? ?

? (thanks for that, I've had a really bad day)

rekrunner wrote:

Still not much info on the topic, but Spanish papers and police reports also said that they found Aden with many kinds of vitamins.

Looks like some vitamins are illegal in Spain.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Really, you were only pushing the "only vitamins" "zinc, B12 isn't illegal" line.

Links?

Yes. You can find them in Aden threads.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Links?

rekrunner wrote:

Still not much info on the topic, but Spanish papers and police reports also said that they found Aden with many kinds of vitamins.

Looks like some vitamins are illegal in Spain.

Are you obfuscating again on this rekrunner? I haven't seen any reports that vitamins were found in the raid, which is irrelevant anyway since EPO & roids were confiscated in the bust. In fact, different types of rocket fuel and 19 syringes preloaded with rocket fuel for ready to use were confiscated. The most recent update is from about 4 months ago:

"The Spanish paper El País said it has seen the prosecutor’s report on Aden, which accuses the British-Somali coach of putting the health of his elite athletes at risk by providing them with up to eight types of substances and medications to improve their performance.

Although no trial date has been set, prosecutors want the maximum penalty for Aden and his trusted physiotherapist, Ouarid Mounir, although whether they are able to extradite Aden from Qatar, where he is now based, is another story."

It's clear that the Spanish prosecutors want to charge both Mounir and Aden. But it sounds like Aden is hanging out in Qatar and probably wouldn't voluntarily return to Spain to answer to the charges. And where is Aden's "trusted" physiotherapist hiding out at?

I can't help what you've seen, and I would agree "what you haven't seen" is irrelevant anyway. It was reported here last year here in an Aden thread.

Wreckrunner wrote:

Are you obfuscating again on this rekrunner? I haven't seen any reports that vitamins were found in the raid, which is irrelevant anyway ...

rekrunner wrote:

I still don't see the contradiction or incompatibility in 2004, let alone the relevance.

You don't? Let's try again......

Paula Radcliffe in her autobiography:

On Monday, August 2, three weeks before the Olympic marathon, I did my final 2hr 15min run down at the lake near Font-Romeu. It was as good, if not better, than any of the long runs I had done that summer. I was in very good form. The next day we left for England, where we would spend five days before going to the south of Spain to acclimatise for Athens.

We based ourselves on the edge of the Doñana National Park, south of Seville. There were lots of trails, we had a nice place to stay and the temperatures were close to Athens. We wanted to replicate my build-up for my previous marathons as much as possible.

On Sunday, August 8, exactly two weeks before the race, we did our last long training session: a two-hour tempo run in the evening to replicate the Athens marathon. Gerard (Hartmann, my physiotherapist) wasn’t feeling well and didn’t come. Gary (my husband) and I went in the car to the cycle path from where I would set off.

Warming up, I felt a little tightness in the vastus medialis muscle in the quadricep of my left leg. Had Gerard been there I would have asked him to have a look, but it didn’t seem serious enough to drive back. If it became sore during the run, I would stop. Through the first hour and a half I was aware of it, but it wasn’t painful. In the last half-hour it gave me a little more trouble, but as soon as the run was completed the leg seized up.

Gerard told me not to worry; the muscle causing the problem was not essential for running. As soon as he touched the area that was in spasm I was in agony. To loosen it, he had to be incredibly gentle with his massage and clever with his psychology; he didn’t want me worrying about this. The next morning it felt bruised but otherwise seemed OK. I went for my run as normal, but five minutes into the warm-up it was obvious there was a problem. It felt as if I couldn’t bend my leg properly. On the massage table, I didn’t have to be told it was serious. I could feel the same squeakiness in the area above my left knee that had been in my shin before the Chicago marathon two years before and again in 2003. Crepitus had come back to haunt me.

Gerard said the muscle didn’t seem to be damaged; it was aggravated and in an inflammatory cycle. By evening it felt better and the squeaky sensations had disappeared. The next morning, there was still no sign of the crepitus and I decided to give it another 24 hours before putting it to the test.

That afternoon we went for a 20-minute walk on the seafront and returned for more treatment. When Gerard looked at it, his face fell. “It’s back,” he said and I could tell that he was shaken. So we turned again to Dr Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt (the German doctor). We had to get this sorted and quickly. Gerard and I went to Munich.

Gary Lough's take on this injury:

On one of her last long training runs, her leg started to hurt out of nowhere….but of course I didn’t really know what was going on, so she kept going, she thought it was some kind of cramp…..

VERSUS.......

Gerard Hartmann's description of the injury (interview with Cathal Dennehy):

The following year, 2004, she went to Athens [for the Olympic Games] as a massive favorite in the marathon. What exactly went wrong?

GH: Three weeks before the Olympics, down in Portugal, Paula did a 16-mile run and a car with joyriders going too fast came in onto the gravel trails. A stone or something hard flung from the back tire, hit her knee, and she got a blood abscess deep in her knee. We flew the following day to Munich to see Dr. Müller-Wohlfahrt.

Gerard Hartman's interview with Sean Ingle:

“In 2004, in Greece, she was overwhelming favourite for the women’s marathon and, three weeks beforehand, was in the shape of her life. Then came a freak accident: she was running along the trails when a joyrider, going too fast, skidded down near her, sending a sharp stone flying into a knee.

“A stone, like a bullet, had hit the side of her knee and it had turned black,” Hartmann says. “She had a clot and abscess.

So you don't find the differences in these stories just a little bit strange? Try really hard and not be a troll here rekrunner. We're not talking about a positive dope test here, we're just discussing why there are two stories about her pre-Athens injury that are in no way compatible. A normal person would just acknowledge that yes, that is odd.

DHT123 wrote:

So you don't find the differences in these stories just a little bit strange? Try really hard and not be a troll here rekrunner.

To deny everything is his way to keep the drug cheats in the spot light (by keeping the antidoping threads alive), for lots of us are then inclined to repeat the facts to correct his lies.

For those long time career dopers, truth is irrelevant; they just say whatever sounds good at the time.

Btw, CAS puts weight onto changing stories; they used that to condemn Rita:

CAS wrote:

The panel is of the view that there would be no need for the Athlete to constantly change and adapt her story if she did not have something to hide, i.e. that rEPO was taken in order to enhance performance.

casual obsever wrote:

DHT123 wrote:

So you don't find the differences in these stories just a little bit strange? Try really hard and not be a troll here rekrunner.

To deny everything is his way to keep the drug cheats in the spot light (by keeping the antidoping threads alive), for lots of us are then inclined to repeat the facts to correct his lies.

For those long time career dopers, truth is irrelevant; they just say whatever sounds good at the time.

Btw, CAS puts weight onto changing stories; they used that to condemn Rita:

CAS wrote:

The panel is of the view that there would be no need for the Athlete to constantly change and adapt her story if she did not have something to hide, i.e. that rEPO was taken in order to enhance performance.

you cant reason with rek, he has serious mental issues or he is paid to troll...or both

from all the comments he has done we can deduce a few things

1- he is somehow connect to the brojos and paula

2- he loves to hear himself talk

I see the difference, but, if, for example, the stone caused the abscess, then the resulting knee inflammation lead to the other symptoms, this makes both stories complementary rather than contradictory or incompatible. Sean Ingle probably gives us the most insight when he says, in another article, about Athens: "... Radcliffe never revealed the extent of her problems, even shunning the ghostwriter of her autobiography, David Walsh, after Athens." I suppose the auto-biography, written around the same time of probably her greatest disappointment at missing the Olympic Gold medal, is scarce on details about this event where the failure at the Olympics was still fresh in her mind. I don't find that as odd as trying to make a big deal out of it.

DHT123 wrote:

You don't? Let's try again......

...

So you don't find the differences in these stories just a little bit strange? Try really hard and not be a troll here rekrunner. We're not talking about a positive dope test here, we're just discussing why there are two stories about her pre-Athens injury that are in no way compatible. A normal person would just acknowledge that yes, that is odd.

Lol. Which threads are the "anti-doping" threads? I guess it's a good thing Paula never had any reason to be in front of CAS.

casual obsever wrote:

To deny everything is his way to keep the drug cheats in the spot light (by keeping the antidoping threads alive), for lots of us are then inclined to repeat the facts to correct his lies.

For those long time career dopers, truth is irrelevant; they just say whatever sounds good at the time.

Btw, CAS puts weight onto changing stories; they used that to condemn Rita:

CAS wrote:

The panel is of the view that there would be no need for the Athlete to constantly change and adapt her story if she did not have something to hide, i.e. that rEPO was taken in order to enhance performance.

I'd agree with "YOU can't reason with rek", but I don't think you should speak for others. It's amazing how many of your deductions and conclusions couldn't be more wrong. For example, I don't talk when I post, so I don't hear anything but keyclicks.

m!ndweak wrote:

you cant reason with rek, he has serious mental issues or he is paid to troll...or both

from all the comments he has done we can deduce a few things

1- he is somehow connect to the brojos and paula

2- he loves to hear himself talk

rekrunner wrote:

I see the difference, but, if, for example, the stone caused the abscess, then the resulting knee inflammation lead to the other symptoms, this makes both stories complementary rather than contradictory or incompatible.

Sean Ingle probably gives us the most insight when he says, in another article, about Athens:

"... Radcliffe never revealed the extent of her problems, even shunning the ghostwriter of her autobiography, David Walsh, after Athens."

I suppose the auto-biography, written around the same time of probably her greatest disappointment at missing the Olympic Gold medal, is scarce on details about this event where the failure at the Olympics was still fresh in her mind.

I don't find that as odd as trying to make a big deal out of it.

That does not even come close to making sense.....

You say an athlete would rather give a false recount of what happened for some reason than something that actually happened?? How would it be better or more beneficial for her? It raises red flags and suspicion. It is the exact opposite of what someone would do if they don't have anything to hide (especially pro-athletes who might need to provide detailed information regarding medicine or even exemptions for medicines).

There is absolutely nothing complementary about it. It is statements like these that are just borderline absurd.

You just couldn't do it, could you? I sort of feel sorry for you. I'm still not quite sure if you're a lonely middle-aged guy, sitting in a dingy flat, getting off on winding people up or whether you're multiple people paid by someone to deliberately spread misinformation, but I'm pretty sure that one of these conclusions is correct.

Another poster, JS, has already put it perfectly, but just to be clear, your 'explanation' above does not wash, and there are NOT two ways of looking at this.

Sean Ingle's quote is from the same article I posted, not a different one, and just means that she did not have contact with David Walsh in the period directly after the race. Maybe you want to read the autobiography before you state : "I suppose the auto-biography.........is scarce on details about this event. Because the book is actually structured around the Athens race, and there are several chapters specifically written about the lead-up to the race and then the race itself. It couldn't be clearer. She has written one version of events. Gerard Hartmann has a totally different version of events. Why? Someone is lying.