Dook cross country

Norm coaches he men and he programs are as separate as Kevin can get them. Norm does a decent job recruiting and they occassionally make it to NCAA's in xc (3 or 4 times during his tenure). On the men's side, never get that NCAA-level track guy though.

You know that Norm has been there for over 20 years?

You know that Norm has been there for over 20 years?

So Curtis Beach isn't a NCAA-level track guy?

When is the last time they won an ACC?

what information do you want that isn't easy to find online?

ACC XC performance -- usually 4th or 5th recently

NCAA XC performance -- made nats 3 of last 4 years, placed 20-30 each time

ACC track performance -- top-3 dmr, recently had some acc top 3s in indoor 3k, mile, outdoor steeple and 1500, not many acc champs

NCAA track performance -- had some outdoor ncaa qualifiers recently in 1500, steeple, 10k, no scorers.

recruiting - probably gets the 4th-best recruits in the acc behind fsu, uva, nc state (counting transfers), and sometimes unc

training - 70-100 mpw, workouts, long run, basically same as everyone else

terrain - 50%+ mileage from campus on soft surfaces (dook forest, buehler trail)

academics - challenging for most majors. prestigious in pre-med/biomedical engineering, econ/finance/business, math, highly ranked in most majors. depends what you want to do but a dook degree is solid, but it's not a cakewalk to pull a decent gpa

cost - super expensive depending on financial aid, not sure how scholarships work but i've heard not many

weather - a lot nicer than princeton but not nearly as nice as stanford. summer is HOT, no snow in winter

overall - first, you should go where you think is the best overall fit for you. that said on paper stanford is better in everything (except natural training surfaces next to where you live and biomed). princeton might be too but they've had coaching shakeups recently so we'll see what happens. if academics are top priority, the main rival choices would be the furd and princeton as mentioned, columbia, and georgetown if you are going into pre-law/political science/public policy. really depends on what you want to do, in engineering there are many very solid state schools like michigan, wisconsin, ucla, probably some others who are also good at running. if running is more important to you but you still want a solid degree, the list would grow like notre dame, uva, or the engineering schools mentioned above. also depends if you are more of a track or xc guy.

Guess I missed some stats, they also had a couple all-acc 5ks between indoors and outdoors recently. times: some 3:42 1500s, some 8:04 3kers, some 14:00 5kers (and a 13:50). Looks like most of those guys ran 4:12-4:15 and 9:00-9:15 in high school to give you an idea.

The best way to find out about any team is to look up their roster online and contact people on the team via Facebook. Yes, they will probably say it's great and you should go there, but at least they could give you more details about the program.

Gross exaggerations.

They get great talent because of its academics, but Norm can't coach. Team has made it to Nationals 5 times on the men's side.

If running isn't a huge part in your decision in picking a school, then it's awesome. If you aspire to even NCAA-level, Duke can't deliver (men's side in distance area)

Also, they were beyond lucky to make Nationals this fall. Literally made it by one point (less than a second)

Sorry you got rejected from Duke buddy

Ignore the haters. They've made nats 3 of the last 4 years and do pretty well for the talent they get. They don't bring in the ridiculous talent that some of the top running schools get but do pretty well for themselves with 9:05-9:20 type guys. Same type of thing in track they're probably had 10 guys go 14:10 or faster in the last couple of years and usually have a couple dip under 14 every year. Same deal in 1500/10k with several guys going 3:42 or so and guys going 29:30s.

They're not the type of team that's going to be looking for trophies at nats but they do well for what they have and occasionally contend for the ACC title. The team underwent a huge culture shift the last 5 years or so and it shows now that they're making nats relatively consistently. Also Norm's a real nice guy and really cares about his athletes and wants them to succeed athletically and academically. Don't listen to the dweebs on this board, they're the same guys that say Dave Smith is a terrible coach even though his teams consistently win nats.

You could be justified to blame it on the rigorous academics, but don't try to say there there isn't a good deal of non-development in the program. And the poster below really nailed it when he said that Norm just thinks in terms of competitive at the ACC, never the next step towards Nationals, Trials, or running professionally.

1= Number of sub 14:00 5000 meter runners Norm has coached in 20 years at Duke

We liked beating duke & N.C. state when I went to a Jr. College.

Their cross country performances tend to be better than their track times. It seems like team usually runs relays at Penn instead of chasing fast times at other meets. The ACC meet being early doesn't help.

Whatever happened to Mckelvey, who ran sub-9:00 in high school and was a Footlocker finalist?

dookforest wrote:

1= Number of sub 14:00 5000 meter runners Norm has coached in 20 years at Duke

Actually try 3 in the last 2 years. Congrats on being liar though, that's awesome man!

Nailed it. Norm is an east coast guy. Likes to show his athletes off on the east coast. Chasing fast times at Washington? Forget it. Mt. Sac or Stanford? Get outta here. He would rather have a guy run 14:20 at the Armory and win in front of the New York crowd rather than run 13:55 mid pack at Washington.

Last Duke male distance runner at Nationals outdoors?