Can we finally put the "NY vs California" teams issue to rest?

Eastern Fan wrote:

Three girls teams from NY in today's top five, and none from Cal in top 15, despite pre-race pundit predictions. Cal teams may be fast on the warm, dry flats of home, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a true XC race with mud, hills and cold.

wait, is Arcadia in NY now?

Eastern Fan wrote:

Three girls teams from NY in today's top five, and none from Cal in top 15, despite pre-race pundit predictions. Cal teams may be fast on the warm, dry flats of home, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a true XC race with mud, hills and cold.

This was put to bed a long time ago. The Californians who keep bringing it up are either ignorant or smoking to much weed.

agip wrote:

Eastern Fan wrote:

Three girls teams from NY in today's top five, and none from Cal in top 15, despite pre-race pundit predictions. Cal teams may be fast on the warm, dry flats of home, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a true XC race with mud, hills and cold.

wait, is Arcadia in NY now?

Repeat -- GIRLS teams. And fortunately for far play, the clock is color blind. Thanks both of you for pointing out the correlation between low intelligence and racism.

Eastern Fan wrote:

Three girls teams from NY in today's top five, and none from Cal in top 15, despite pre-race pundit predictions. Cal teams may be fast on the warm, dry flats of home, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a true XC race with mud, hills and cold.

Come out and run Mt. Sac and let us know just how flat it is.

NY - 7th and 8th graders are able to run on organized, coached middle school teams. Some of those teams are integrated with high school varsity teams, and some of those girls run on the varsity teams.

CA - for most schools, no organized, coached middle school teams. Middle school kids are not allowed to practice or race with high school teams. Some girls who run high school cross country did previously run age group cross country.

When do school teams from California play soccer? NY loses a large number of the most talented kids in the school to soccer every year. Give me soccer girls over 7-8th graders any day.

Advantage California...and they still can't even come close to NY girls teams.....

Silly boy, soccer girls play year round here in California and do not run XC, they play club.

As for the NY vs. CA please remember last week was the State Meet which is the only race we CA schools care about. NXN is fun but not as big as our state meet.

My guess is if NY schools ran in our state meet they might only get 1 qualifier FM.

NY is great, it would be nice to have a true national championship. But didn't a ca girl win?

Yo Skeptic,

NY and CA both get preferential treatment in qualifying for NXN. CA takes the cake in being able to use their state meet as the NXN qualifier while NY gets their own qualifier. There is no question that these concessions tend to encourage the great teams from NY and CA to compete in the NXN National meet. It is totally disingenuous to suggest that the CA teams or individual qualifiers don't care about NXN because they focus on their state meet. The importance of their respective state meets is equivalent for every team who runs in NXN. That said, NY teams and in particular F-M have run better at NXN despite having to qualify in their own regional a week after their own state meet.

There is no doubt that we can finally put the OP's question to rest. NY dominates. Don't give me that CA, wine country, sour grapes, BS that CA teams don't care. And don't try to tell us the NY teams would only get one qualifier in your precious state meet. If NY schools ran in the CA state meet, it wouldn't be the CA state meet. CA teams (by your assertion) wouldn't care and they would get run into the mud. Oh yeah, this was about teams, not individuals. Objection! Move to strike. Stipulated that Sarah Baxter is the best HS XC girl in the country no matter what happens next weekend. Kudos to her but you should find another post to make that mention.

Somebody struck a nerve...

CA teams care MORE about the state meet. Doesn't mean they don't care about NXN, just not as much. It's hard to lay it on the line at Mt. Sac, SS Semi's, section finals, state, than NXN. It's just icing on the cake, not the cake.

But before you get all upset FM is dominant no doubt. And the NY girls are very good, probably better. But there's a lot that goes into why but as you said that's another post.

CA are better on a course like Mt Sac (hard surface lots of hills)

NY are better at muddy conditions course.

Not because of toughness but because that's what they race on all year. Transitioning to a muddy course when your state runs mostly road races is a disadvantage for CA.

Saratoga does Suburbans, Sectionals, States, Feds and then Regionals.... They seem to do just fine. Stop making excuses.... There are advantages and disadvantages to both states.... NY girls are great year in and year out.

They deserve 4 bids every year.

I hate to break it to y'all, but in CA, the state meet rules supreme in the minds of the kids.

When my kids do ask me about post season stuff (which I generally discourage) they ask me about Foot Locker.

If the California teams don't care about Nikes enough to bring their best game, they shouldn't be receiving at-large bids over other teams. And if they are bringing it but still can't score top 15, they shouldn't be receiving at- large bids over other teams. End result is the same, and Nike should jump off the Cali bandwagon to invite better, more committed teams.

NY - 7th and 8th graders are able to run on organized, coached middle school teams. Some of those teams are integrated with high school varsity teams, and some of those girls run on the varsity teams.

CA - for most schools, no organized, coached middle school teams. Middle school kids are not allowed to practice or race with high school teams. Some girls who run high school cross country did previously run age group cross country.

That's just a stupid argument- you can't argue with stupidity.

NY can't compete with most other states in football. Upstate NY is a joke in basketball, NY XC is the best it's just the way it is.

Holy Names being left out was too bad- they beat East Aurora at states in class B. NY could have had 4 in the top 6 and who knows if another team was picked.

runn wrote:

That's just a stupid argument- you can't argue with stupidity.

So having 7th and 8th graders run competitively and, for some teams, with and on the varsity high school team, makes no difference?

Ask the Tatnall coaches whether they think it makes a difference.

Why do you think Saratoga has been so good for the past 20 years? Integrating age group, middle school and high school runners makes for a great developmental program.

You gotta love California whine. CA has amazing runners and teams, but they simply don't match up with NY (girls) when it comes to real XC. Like someone said, CA is used to hard surfaces. XC was never meant to be run on hard surfaces. Personally, I think CA has created their own issues with running well at Portland Meadows. Arcadia doesn't seem to have any issues running well. It's mental, it's not about running in the mud during the year. Which states have experience running in mud prior to NXN?

To the poster mentioning that CA XC doesn't benefit from soccer girls: you're lying to yourself if you don't think it's true. I've had many CA coaches mention the benefit of getting soccer girls in XC.

I have no doubt the CA state meet reigns supreme, as it should, but you also need to get over the fact that NY XC is far superior on the girls side.

Eastern Fan wrote:

If the California teams don't care about Nikes enough to bring their best game, they shouldn't be receiving at-large bids over other teams. And if they are bringing it but still can't score top 15, they shouldn't be receiving at- large bids over other teams. End result is the same, and Nike should jump off the Cali bandwagon to invite better, more committed teams.

+1

And seriously, is someone trying to say that in other states they don't care about their State meet? ALL teams have to care more about State than post-season.

Indiana runs their state meet late Oct, then has to peak in 2 weeks for MW regional, then 3 weeks later for NXN. They did just fine.

New York isn't the only state that has middle school teams. For the most part the programs aren't very serious. I would say most girls run about 8-10 miles a week for 10 weeks out of the year. Big whoop. The real talent is almost always in soccer.