Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Renato never does not impress.

I have a general comment:

Ok, let's suppose the "new" #'s presented here are true: the aerobic contribution to energy is greater than many thought for even the shorter events, like 400/800/1500. Ok, great. So the lots of volume of aerobic running have something more to cheer about....fantastic (not being sarcastic, just saying: "great!").

But I have a question: why does aerobic training have to be "slow" (relatively speaking) ?????

Igloi's runners did TONS of fast running, and much of it was aerobic (short sprints, with short recoveries). And Marius Bakken does TONS of "fast" running, anb most of it is aerobic (but his version is longer repeats, with a little more recovery, right at the LASS, AT.).

In short, you can train "fast" regularly and still train aerobic and not be in "lactic-acid-land" regularly. You might just have to , GASP, take more breaks than you are used to. Most people consider stopping and walking to recover during a workout, even in a very intense speed workout, to be blasphemous. But Bob Schul, gold medalist, walked his breaks most of the time.....and Marius Bakken stops for 2 minutes to take Lactate measurements during his hard repeats. In short: run fast, take breaks before you land yourself above your Anerobic Threshold, recover a bit....AND DO IT AGAIN. That way you'll get the BEST OF BOTH WORLDS: fast running AND aerobic training. This can be done on a fairly regular basis, and is not more taxing than long, steady[with no breaks] slower runs.

I trained with Joe Douglas' distance runners a couple of days in the 70's and was very surprised how easy they went.

We started with 30 or so 100's, then moved on to other things. I was expecting us to move along at a good rhythm, but the pace wasn't any faster than I'd do for a good 10 mile run.

After about 2 hours of this and similar, Douglas gave me a pitch about joining their group.

I wasn't impressed and didn't go back.

Renato thanks for posting.

Some post ago you spoke about 400m speed of Kennedy, Bekele and Gebrselassie

You all under estimate their speed

Kennedy 50sec 400m and 1.50min 800m

Bekele 37sec 300m in a 5000m = 47-48 400m speed

Haile 49 400m in a relay and a 11.8 100m

Renato has said that he estimated runners like Bekele right at 50flat. Geb's best was a 49.9 time trial, I believe. They can close the last 200m at true 400m speed.

Great post Renato. You were spot on the Science of American Coaches.

Bjorn wrote:

Some post ago you spoke about 400m speed of Kennedy, Bekele and Gebrselassie

You all under estimate their speed

Kennedy 50sec 400m and 1.50min 800m

Bekele 37sec 300m in a 5000m = 47-48 400m speed

Haile 49 400m in a relay and a 11.8 100m

Bjorn, frankly I am SURE some of your numbers are bogus.

From Marius Bakken:

"Bob Kennedy - 12.58. Could not break 52 in the 400 meters. Did workouts with him at Indiana, and I know this for sure.

Marius"

Bekele ran that 37 with part of the middle 200 in 24-point. There is no way he runs 47. Likely 49-point at FASTEST.

As for Gebrselassie's time, I do not know where you came up with the 400. In an interview he said his 100 PB is 11.8 which he nearly equalled in Gothenberg 1995 and Sydney 2000. Usually, 400 time goes:

11.8+ 1/sec per 100= 12.8 per 100 * 4= 400 time= 51.2 seconds

Therefore, Geb is VERY resistant to be able to run 50 with 11.8 speed. 50 is 12.5 per 100, so he is slowing very little to go an extra 300m.

So I dispute your numbers until you provide evidence. Some of them it seems you completely made up.

Glad that Renato is communicating with American coaches. We need his influence. He is a brilliant and generous man. Thanks for sharing your insight on theses boards.

Racer1,

At a track clinic sometime ago, Jos reportedly said that Geb's 400m PB was 49.9.

trackhead wrote:

Racer1,

At a track clinic sometime ago, Jos reportedly said that Geb's 400m PB was 49.9.

I don't doubt you are right, but is there some sort of article about this?

Was this a clinic in America? Did you go? Did Jos explain the context of the 400 (i.e., did he do it fresh, in some Ethiopian meet, or at the end of a workout?)?

Renato, you deserve this record. You have helped many athletes.This is my question lost in the shuffle if you are able to answer with the Internet working:RENATO CANOVA WROTE:

When we speak about African runners we must think that, normally, the best athletes are able to start their official athletic careers from a level of 90% of their final performance because they are already well prepared, without official coaches, using at home the most important type of training for a distance runner: long runs (from 5 to 12-15 km), very fast.

Through this type of training the most talented runners are able to greatly improve their ANAEROBIC THRESHOLD, building a special MAX LASS, that is very difficult to reach with Caucasian runners from western countries. This is due to a lack of natural power – endurance for the natural training done during the first 12 – 15 years of life.

Are you saying that all hope is lost for Caucasian/Western runners?

Godfrey Kiprotich said in his interview today he could walk the roads of Iten and find 250 people able to win European races and many able to break world records.

What is your thought for the Western runner to catch them, if he has not grown up running barefoot to school 10 miles each day?

It was an American clinic, I was there, and I believe the presenter received the info directly from Jos, and I'm pretty sure it was just a time trial.

You must remember that 11.8 in 100m for Haile is not the same as a sprinter. He will loose much in the start. I read from an interwiew that he did 49 in 400m.

I belive that evry distance runner who can do around 23,5 in 400m also Canova pupil N. Kemboi

Kenedy Numbers I found from an American book were he was interwievd.

Also Marius Bakken has PB of 49 400m and 1.51 800m (but some time ago)

Ofen the best distance runners (white) start as sprinter and 800m runner. You need both Speed and Endurane.

Some say Lopes was a 56 400m runner. I think he did 56 last la of a ca 27.20 10k while Mamede finish in 54 last lap.

Develop Speed and endurance always, then conect them with speed endurance before track season. For 400- Marathon.

I'm not sure if Renato Canova is right in this case, he once posted that the anaerobic threshold of africans is higher than 4.0 mmol in difference to caucasian runners what seems not to be true as Antonio Cabral has posted that Luis Novo(a 2:09 runner who has a degree in Sportsphys.) did a research with the top-portguese runners and found out that their anaerobic thresholds were/are also higher than the classic definition of 4.0 mmol.

Renato also posted that Gebre has such a high MAX LASS like 8-10mmol but that is nothing special in my opinion, classic mmol value for someone running at his aerobic capacity.

All researchs indicate that the east-africans dominate middle and long-distance running mainly because of the superior running economy they have because of their ectomorph body-types.

You can't change your body type but you can improve your efficiency a lot by working on mobility/power, take Seb Coe as an example.

Bekele has an "ectomorph body-type."?

compared to the "average caucasian"-yes, compared to the "average kenyan"-no but his obviously extreme quads-power compensates that.