Do you have trouble with dog owners?

Agreed, first good chuckle I've had today.

I always think these responses must be jokes, but sadly they come up so much that they have to be true. So just in case you're not trolling, let me get this straight:

You can't tell the difference between an aggressive dog and one that is ignoring you and runs past with no incident, so the next time you see my 60 lb lab off-leash you're going to kick her (through some goal posts) despite the fact that she causes you no harm? And I need to wise up?

Well, internet tough-guy, I think you've made your point. Here's my analysis: you have to perpetually portray yourself as some sort of victim because you're a weak human being. You can't stand that life isn't rainbows and lollipops 100% of the time and any minor inconvenience to you gets treated as a terrorist attack on your universe. You're incredibly unhappy with yourself and constantly look for external reasons for this.

Here's an idea: treat every dog - leashed or not - like you ought to avoid it. No more guessing. While you're at it, treat every tree Luke it's going to fall in you, every car like it's going to hit you, etc.

You're a pain to dog owners for crying all the time and you're a pain to runners for suggesting we're all retarded pussies.

Go away...

Okay, Saul, I am 100% convinced you're a troll, but you're a good one, so I'm responding.

You have not addressed the FACT that you're breaking the law by having your dog unleashed. How do you respond to this FACT?

Second, how do you respond to the earlier poster's line of, "I'd hate to see a good dog get put down because you're an irresponsible owner?"

I await your response. I'll rate your troll effort accordingly, so be sharp!

Saul Goodman wrote:

I run by plenty of people with my dog off-leash who tell me I should leash her, I kindly tell them "no thanks, she's fine" and we're gone in less than 5 seconds. No harm. Ever.

Here's the problem, actually three problems:

1. You're breaking the law.

2. You're endangering your dog.

3. You're endangering other people and dogs.

I know you love your dog. I'm sure it's a great pet. But it's still an animal. Animals do unpredictable things, sometimes things they've never done before. Like bite people. Or attack other dogs. Or run out in front of a moving car. You can't honestly say that you KNOW your dog would never do this- you CAN'T know that, because your dog is an animal. It does not have the reasoning ability that humans do. Therefore, it is capable of doing unpredictable and seemingly out of character things.

Really, if you care about your dog, you should keep it on a leash, FOR ITS OWN GOOD. It's really the only thing a responsible dog owner would do.

Besides, all it would take is one phone call to city hall from one of your pesky neighbors, and you'd be getting a visit from animal control. If you love your dog, why would you risk that? Seems foolish and irresponsible to me.

Saul, you've missed the entire point. People running by don't know what your dog will do and quite frankly, neither do you, because it's an animal. Quit treating it like a person and obey the law. Have some respect for people like you do for animals.

I genuinely don't understand how you people leave the house without protective gear and helmets.

Mr. go go,

You have not addressed the FACT that you're breaking the law by having your dog unleashed. How do you respond to this FACT?

It bothers me about as much as when I go 6mph over the posted speed limit or roll through a stop sign when no one is around. Spirit of the Law vs. Letter of the Law. Are you saying you've never sped? Do you stand at neighborhood intersections and shake your fist at people who don't make complete stops? I do not care that it's technically against the law for several reasons. About 60% of the people that use the trails where I run with my dog feel the same way. And 99% of the remaining 40% who leash their dogs don't appear to be bothered by it either. It's probably less than 1 in 100 people I come across that give the condescending lecture (despite no actual problems arising from her being unleashed). The law is there to keep dangerous animals from harming people - mission accomplished with mine.

Second, how do you respond to the earlier poster's line of, "I'd hate to see a good dog get put down because you're an irresponsible owner?"

Who's putting my dog down and why? Did my dog attack someone? She should be put down then because she's not a good dog and is a danger. Is she getting put down because someone called animal control who deemed me an unworthy dog owner and had no choice but to put her down? Not very likely. Is some uptight prick taking the law into their own hands and killing my dog simply because she's off the leash? You'll have to clarify.

I await your response. I'll rate your troll effort accordingly, so be sharp!

Please give me your grade ASAP, your input is highly valuable to me.

Here's the problem,

Here's the problem, actually three problems:

1. You're breaking the law. - Don't give an eff (see above)

2. You're endangering your dog. - No.

3. You're endangering other people and dogs. - Nope.

My dog is in no danger. She obeys and heels and intersections (though I still leash her 100m or so before and after just in case she sees a squirrel or something on the other side of the road). No one else or their dog is in danger either. Is it within her capability to snap and start devouring small children with no warning? I ... guess so? But it's also within my capability to just stab you as I run by. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Do you keep your kids on leashes? One of them could just snap and start biting me.

I know you love your dog. I'm sure it's a great pet. But it's still an animal. Animals do unpredictable things, sometimes things they've never done before. Like bite people. Or attack other dogs. Or run out in front of a moving car. You can't honestly say that you KNOW your dog would never do this- you CAN'T know that, because your dog is an animal. It does not have the reasoning ability that humans do. Therefore, it is capable of doing unpredictable and seemingly out of character things.

Well, I have no argument against the possibility of my dog going berserk after nearly a decade of being well behaved. But again, how do you people leave the house? Your coworker could come into the office tomorrow and shoot the place up. A telephone pole could fall on your car. Is this really how you live your life? Preparing for the .0001% chance that something bad could happen? I've got thousands of miles with my dog. Everything seems okay so far.

Besides, all it would take is one phone call to city hall from one of your pesky neighbors, and you'd be getting a visit from animal control. If you love your dog, why would you risk that? Seems foolish and irresponsible to me.

This is where I come to realize that you've made some pretty big assuming leaps about me. Neighbors? Who said anything about my neighborhood? My dog is behind a fence at home and leashed when we run in the neighborhoods since it's all streets. Why would anyone in my neighborhood call me in? Are you talking about people seeing me on a trail and calling me in? They're going to have to act pretty fast to get us. And even if they did, I'm not above lying and saying I was adjusting her collar and she got away for a few meters. Do you really think I'm going to get taken down in a sting operation? Because my dog runs next to me without a leash and doesn't bother anyone? Christ, I hope the authorities have better things to do.

Wise Owl,

Saul, you've missed the entire point. People running by don't know what your dog will do and quite frankly, neither do you, because it's an animal. Quit treating it like a person and obey the law. Have some respect for people like you do for animals.

I have missed no points. I understand what you people are saying and I kinda agree with you. I think you have the right to be upset with crappy dogs/owners and the crappy situations they make. What I've refuted is that a leash is 100% necessary 100% of the time. My dog's fine. I don't need lectures about how dangerous she is to herself and everyone around her when she's off-leash. Do you suggest people leash their dogs at home? They could snap and attack you, your kids, your company. But this isn't about actual safety. It's about a small minority of people that have to take such offense and set themselves up as victims over trivial crap.

Not making this up, the worst attack my dog ever got (she's been nipped by others and her stupid ass just keeps running) was from a leashed dog whose owner couldn't control it. Leashing isn't the safety issue, the dogs and their owners are.

Yes, the tough guys are the ones walking with 60lb dogs off-leash.

Btw you are not all retarded pussies.

[quote]Saul Goodman wrote:

My dog is in no danger. She obeys and heels and intersections (though I still leash her 100m or so before and after just in case she sees a squirrel or something on the other side of the road). No one else or their dog is in danger either. Is it within her capability to snap and start devouring small children with no warning? I ... guess so? But it's also within my capability to just stab you as I run by. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Do you keep your kids on leashes? One of them could just snap and start biting me.

Saul, what you fail to realize is that dogs are unpredictable - even if yours is not. After years of running, I've been bitten, tripped, chased, and viscously barked at numerous times. Never has a human done these things to me. Never has a tree or telephone post fallen on me.

Therefore, your well-behaved unleashed dog is a threat to people, because we don't know. When I see an unleashed dog on my run, I must try to avoid, slow down, turn around, beware, etc. because I have no way of knowing. They do not come with signs letting us know if they will run at us or not. In my experience about 30% of dogs will chase if unleashed.

You may know, but no one else does. An unleashed dog puts fear into people with small kids, and especially runners (who dogs like to chase). Often very playful dogs will get in my feet and trip me.

What does this mean?

That you need to think a little more about other people and less about YOURSELF and your DOG. I know it goes against the grain of people nowadays to think of others, but a little consideration can go a long way.

Injured By Dog wrote:

Yes, the tough guys are the ones walking with 60lb dogs off-leash.

Btw you are not all retarded pussies.

That's unfortunate that you were hurt by a dog but you were hurt by some combination of bad dog/owner. I am in no way suggesting that no dogs should be leashed. I'm also not suggesting that someone who's fearful or wary of aggressive dogs are r-tarded p-ssies. I am calling anyone who's afraid of my dog a r-tarded p-ssy.

Seriously, if you see my pile of fur trundling next to me headed in your general direction and you just can't decide if she's going to maul you or keep moving with no incident.... I fear for you. Take some anti-anxiety meds or something.

One thing that annoys me is when people, mostly kids unsupervised by parents, try to come up and pet my dog. Being annoyed by that may sound strange, but my dog is a rescue and is fearful of some people, men mostly. She's also extremely protective of me since I rescued her (I think she was beaten in her previous home). So I go to great pains to cross the street when another dog is coming, and give people a wide berth on the sidewalk or path. She's ok with most people and dogs and we pass silently. But there are times that she decides that she doesn't like a dog (usually who barks at her first), or some dude, and she'll bark at them. So I make her sit and make her be quiet.

Anyway, I keep my distance in all cases just in case. But about 75% of the time that I see kids at the park or wherever, they always run up and want to pet her (she's very cute). I tell them no, and some of them (usually the really young ones), keep coming. My dog just sees little creatures running towards her and gets scared. Sometimes she barks, and then the parents finally look up and then get mad at me for my dog barking at their kids. My neighbor is notorious for this...she lets her 3 year-old wander around the parking lot unsupervised and I try to skirt around him to go for my morning and evening walks. So my request is for people to NEVER assume that you can pet a dog without asking permission from the owner first. It works both ways.

Saul Goodman wrote:

That's unfortunate that you were hurt by a dog but you were hurt by some combination of bad dog/owner. I am in no way suggesting that no dogs should be leashed. I'm also not suggesting that someone who's fearful or wary of aggressive dogs are r-tarded p-ssies. I am calling anyone who's afraid of my dog a r-tarded p-ssy.

Seriously, if you see my pile of fur trundling next to me headed in your general direction and you just can't decide if she's going to maul you or keep moving with no incident.... I fear for you. Take some anti-anxiety meds or something.

This is ridiculous.

The number of times a dog has been running next to someone jogging/running/cycling and has shown no interest in me running until they are about 20 meters away at which time they start barking like a maniac is astonishing. Certainly yes there is the occasional dog which barrels on through without so much as a glance (perhaps such as yours), and yes I agree that those dogs don't need to be on a leash but considering those dogs are the rarity it's not unreasonable for people to be wary of any sizable dog that's running off leash.

No it doesn't make people retarded or require them to take anti anxiety meds. The simple fact that you've had other pedestrians sharing the path ask you to leash your dog suggests that they like us were unable to judge your dog as being different from the plethora of animals which are aggressive towards people sharing the paths with you.

Good post..I agree

Canada Coach

Saul, what you fail to realize is that dogs are unpredictable - even if yours is not. After years of running, I've been bitten, tripped, chased, and viscously barked at numerous times. Never has a human done these things to me. Never has a tree or telephone post fallen on me.

That sucks. Not discounting your experiences, but it doesn't seem to happen to me all that often. And I run in areas where a lot of people treat the trails as off-leash areas. Anecdote: The one time my dog has ever shown aggression to a person was when I lived in an apartment years ago. I took her out to pee and when I turned around she froze. I just looked at her, confused. Then I heard a faint growl from her. I looked where she was looking and there was a terrified Indian woman frozen stiff (I later learned that many Indians fear dogs). I said 'come on, girl' in a happy voice and she came along happily. My theory is that she responded to the fear the Indian woman showed. Maybe people that are afraid of dogs have an unusually high rate of aggressive dog encounters. /theory.

Therefore, your well-behaved unleashed dog is a threat to people, because we don't know. When I see an unleashed dog on my run, I must try to avoid, slow down, turn around, beware, etc. because I have no way of knowing. They do not come with signs letting us know if they will run at us or not. In my experience about 30% of dogs will chase if unleashed.

No, your logic is flawed. My dog is not the threat. Dangerous dogs and unwarranted responses to safe situations are the threat. I'm sorry that you can't tell the difference between friendly and non, but I can't be responsible for your irrational fears. And on a narrow path, do you really think a standard 6' leash is doing any good if a crappy dog decides to attack? Like I've said before, it's not the leash, it's the dog and owner. Re: 30% of unleashed dogs chasing, again, seems very high (and I spend a lot of time in areas with unleashed dogs), have you tried saying 'hey pooch' in a high voice and holding out your hand for them to sniff? That's my natural reaction to any dog and I have never personally experienced any aggression (except from small dogs, which is another story).

DoctorWatts,

This is ridiculous.

The number of times a dog has been running next to someone jogging/running/cycling and has shown no interest in me running until they are about 20 meters away at which time they start barking like a maniac is astonishing. Certainly yes there is the occasional dog which barrels on through without so much as a glance (perhaps such as yours), and yes I agree that those dogs don't need to be on a leash but considering those dogs are the rarity it's not unreasonable for people to be wary of any sizable dog that's running off leash.

What's ridiculous? I'm not defending bad dogs/owners that chase/bark/nip. I'm beginning to think I live in a near-utopian community (whose citizen's dog are significantly better behaved than average) or that I'm the dog whisperer (and dogs leave me alone). Really? An astonishing number of dogs chase you? Really? Move to the north/east suburbs of Seattle. I guess dogs are better here.

[quote]Saul Goodman wrote:

have you tried saying 'hey pooch' in a high voice and holding out your hand for them to sniff? That's my natural reaction to any dog and I have never personally experienced any aggression (except from small dogs, which is another story).

Are you serious? I'm out for a run; it's not the Westminster Dog Show.

Canada Coach wrote:

Are you serious? I'm out for a run; it's not the Westminster Dog Show.

Have you considered that maybe you take your training runs too seriously? Maybe this is just me, but unless I'm working out I don't really care all that much if I have to stop at a traffic light, or slow down to chat with an acquaintance I see, or hold a hand out to a curious dog.

And I'm not a hobby jogger. I post times that most would like to have. But I'm not bothered by a dog that wants to know what's going on. Maybe people would view runners less as obnoxious a-holes if more of us would stop treating every 4-miler like it's an Olympic final.

When I am doing an easy jog and see a dog off the leash and the owners says, "Don't worry, She is friendly."

I say, "Cool beans. I think she is kind of hot". Then if the dog chases me I stop and pull down my shorts and pretend to mount the dog.

The owner usually has nothing to say so after a minute or two I get up from playing with the dog and pull up my shorts and thank the owner for making my run extra special.

Then I go off on my way.

I get some shocked faces or the owner pulls the dog away from me.

Saul Goodman wrote:

Spirit of the Law vs. Letter of the Law. I do not care that it's technically against the law. The law is there to keep from harming people - mission accomplished with mine.

Good point. I'm the same way with this "no texting while driving law". Obviously the law is needed for most people, but since I am extra careful while texting behind the wheel it does not really apply to me. For example, I would NEVER text while driving after I had been drinking. I have never once injured anyone after - mission accomplished in my case.

Saul Goodman wrote:

Canada Coach wrote:

Are you serious? I'm out for a run; it's not the Westminster Dog Show.

Have you considered that maybe you take your training runs too seriously? Maybe this is just me, but unless I'm working out I don't really care all that much if I have to stop at a traffic light, or slow down to chat with an acquaintance I see, or hold a hand out to a curious dog.

And I'm not a hobby jogger. I post times that most would like to have. But I'm not bothered by a dog that wants to know what's going on. Maybe people would view runners less as obnoxious a-holes if more of us would stop treating every 4-miler like it's an Olympic final.

How I treat my training runs is really none of your business. Leashing your pet is everyone's business (it's the law).

As mentioned already, your dog may truly not be a problem whatsoever. I routinely run past dogs that couldn't care less if I exist. But, there are just too many stupid dog owners that think the same of their dogs as you do of yours. Nevermind being bit, even a well intentioned dog can easily trip a runner.

So Saul, your dog likes to chase squirrels? That's cute. I was recently running on my local bike trail when a squirrel came running from the bushes being chased by a harmless black lab being walked off leash. They both collided into a passing cyclist and they all went down.I know, I know. You have your dog under complete voice control. Until you don't.

Saul Goodman wrote:

...everything with no mind to what she's running past unless it's a small creature making rustling sounds in the brush off-trail. One track mind. Nearly a decade of this.