My coach doesn't believe in thresholds and has us do only interval work. Is this normal for college?

I've done maybe three legit tempos in the past year. I HATE them.

I prefer hard intervals and the cruise intervals - think 9x1000 with 200m jog - roughly 40 seconds above 5K pace. You leave the track feeling good.

Tempos beat me up...and if I want to get beat up...I'll do intervals, hills, and mile-paced stuff because I find them more valuable. You get fast by running faster.

This works for me, but to each his own.

Micah takeover wrote:

I've done maybe three legit tempos in the past year. I HATE them.

I prefer hard intervals and the cruise intervals - think 9x1000 with 200m jog - roughly 40 seconds above 5K pace. You leave the track feeling good.

Tempos beat me up...and if I want to get beat up...I'll do intervals, hills, and mile-paced stuff because I find them more valuable. You get fast by running faster.

This works for me, but to each his own.

You must have missed the part where he said all interval work is at 5k pace OR FASTER. That's not threshold work at all.

Mileage, tempos, workouts. Do all three. Figure out your own distance and pacing with the help of your coach. Eventually taper and sharpen before your goal race.

Micah takeover wrote:

I've done maybe three legit tempos in the past year. I HATE them.

I prefer hard intervals and the cruise intervals - think 9x1000 with 200m jog - roughly 40 seconds above 5K pace. You leave the track feeling good.

Tempos beat me up...and if I want to get beat up...I'll do intervals, hills, and mile-paced stuff because I find them more valuable. You get fast by running faster.

This works for me, but to each his own.

40 seconds above 5k pace roughly IS threshold pace.

Coaches News Network wrote:

Why the hostility? Kid reads a book or two and hasn't even been in the program for a full year and he's the genius and coach doesn't get it? Thanks for the chuckle, Sparky.

Your reading comprehension is pretty bad. Nowhere did he say he read books on training, nowhere did he state he was right or a genius, and nowhere did he criticize his coach. Idiot.

Daniels says cruise intervals should be at tempo pace. McMillan has cruise intervals faster than tempo intervals, which are faster than straight tempo runs, which are faster than steady-state runs.

A Daniels 14:55 5000 or 31:00 guy would do his tempo and cruise intervals at 5:13 pr mile. McMillan gives ranges, so the tempo range is 5:03 to 5:16, and the cruise interval range is 4:57 to 5:03.

I don't know anyone who calls intervals at 400 pace to 5000 pace with short rest "cruise intervals", do you? 5000 pace would be 4:48 per mile and 400 pace would be much faster.

MarathonMind wrote:

Is it possible that your coach expects you are doing faster tempo/threshold running in your free time and would rather spend formal training sessions doing more structured workouts?

I don't think so... We have two workouts per week plus one race usually. I've never done workouts every day of the week before, but maybe I could try it? Is that what you would suggest? Should I do thresholds after easy runs (my coach has us do easy runs between workouts), or just not listen to my coach and run my easy days as threshold workouts? Sorry for the questions. I guess I don't understand what you mean by free time.

The best coaches and managers I've been around dont mind a question because it means the student is trying to learn. Now ,of course if you cant answer the question one might get pissed at the student.

Froshy wrote:

MarathonMind wrote:

Is it possible that your coach expects you are doing faster tempo/threshold running in your free time and would rather spend formal training sessions doing more structured workouts?

I don't think so... We have two workouts per week plus one race usually. I've never done workouts every day of the week before, but maybe I could try it? Is that what you would suggest? Should I do thresholds after easy runs (my coach has us do easy runs between workouts), or just not listen to my coach and run my easy days as threshold workouts? Sorry for the questions. I guess I don't understand what you mean by free time.

Don't try to throw in thresholds on your easy days if you are already on the track twice for workouts and another time for races. Recovery days are recovery days, and you will probably run yourself into the ground if you try to throw in another workout during the week.

I just don't see how your coach expects any long term improvement if that's what you do every season. It may work out for you though.

beenthere wrote:

I just don't see how your coach expects any long term improvement if that's what you do every season. It may work out for you though.

I have been running very poorly all track season. My college coach didn't say much to me about training last summer, so I talked to my HS coach and he said just be sure to put in miles, long runs, and a light threshold workout each week along with strides. I did that and came into the xc season in pretty good shape. I held onto that fitness for a while doing all interval work with my college coach but kind of bombed out at the end. I haven't run well ever since. My 1500m time this year converts to a mile time 12 seconds slower than I ran in HS, and my 5k times from xc in high school were about 30s faster than what I'm doing on the track this spring. We were second to last in our conference in xc, but we do have two good runners (low <14:15 5k). I'm just wondering if it's normal to run really bad your first year of college or if this is a sign I should look to transfer.

Junior, I've forgotten more about the sport than you could ever hope to know. Quit breathing.

Coaches News Network wrote:

Junior, I've forgotten more about the sport than you could ever hope to know. Quit breathing.

Troll much?

Coaches News Network wrote:

Junior, I've forgotten more about the sport than you could ever hope to know. Quit breathing.

Please enlighten us then. Many coaches have a high opinion of themselves because they have been doing it for a while but that doesnt necessarily mean they are good coaches. So far all you have contributed to the discussion is an anonymous attack on the OP for asking a question. The general consensus here is that his coach could improve upon some of his training practices, and judging by the OPs performances this year Id say thats a fair assumption.

So Coaches News Network, enlighten us. How do tempos/threshold workouts work the whole year if they are only done in the summer? Most successful coaches I have come across use them all season rather than just in the summer.

You should get tested for anemia.

deleuze wrote:

You should get tested for anemia.

That's what someone suggested to me way back in Janurary. I've been eating red meat almost every day and a lot of spinach too ever since and nothing has changed. If anything I've gotten slower... I never feel good on runs like I did in high school, even though I'm not running any more mileage than I was then. Maybe I don't run well off of nothing but hard interval work? Is that normal? Do most runners run their best by doing hard interval work year-round? Or is this not very typical?

Froshy wrote:

deleuze wrote:

You should get tested for anemia.

That's what someone suggested to me way back in Janurary. I've been eating red meat almost every day and a lot of spinach too ever since and nothing has changed. If anything I've gotten slower... I never feel good on runs like I did in high school, even though I'm not running any more mileage than I was then. Maybe I don't run well off of nothing but hard interval work? Is that normal? Do most runners run their best by doing hard interval work year-round? Or is this not very typical?

Get tested but I'm willing to be you any money that anemia isn't the cause. Id be interested to see though. I've heard similar stories like yours, only to see athletes get tested and find out there isn't anything wrong and their levels are normal. Then every coach who considers themselves to be a "physiologist" will tell you something about how normal levels are bad for a runner blah blah blah and how they need to be high to be considered normal.

Some great coaches have threshold run/intervals in the same day or session. The point of a tempo run is to improve the lactate threshold and it is a great way to do it. However there are other ways to improve the lactate threshold. You can be running faster than LT pace and still be accomplishing the same goal if there is proper recovery running so you don't accumulate too much lactate and your body can still teeter totter on that fine line of LT. Your coach may be bad or he may be good or he may be lucky. the question you have to answer is what the workout is accomplishing and not whether it is called "tempo" "interval" "cruise interval" "steady" "repetitions" etc. There are many ways to accomplish the same mission.

I also seem to have trouble with Tempo runs and do better with 2 weekly interval workouts.

As for just doing interval runs and no LT in the form of fast-paced continuous runs, Geoffrey Mutai's training snapshot from a few weeks back would seem to be proof that you don't have to run tempos as a part of marathon training.

SameHere wrote:

I also seem to have trouble with Tempo runs and do better with 2 weekly interval workouts.

As for just doing interval runs and no LT in the form of fast-paced continuous runs, Geoffrey Mutai's training snapshot from a few weeks back would seem to be proof that you don't have to run tempos as a part of marathon training.

I'd also like to add that it's more a mental thing for me. The continous tempo sort of puts me in no-man's land in terms of pacing. Is this a marathon pace? Is this really my 5K pace? I guess I have trouble determining the effort. I do know the effort differences between my 5K and mile pace, however, so I stick to doing that on the track.

I guess the best way to get some "Tempo" work in for me is to do what Malmo calls "running to the barn" for two miles at the end of your 60 minute easy run...maybe that might work.