Marathon off Rowing Training?

Realllly? wrote:

Seriously? You can row equivalent to 6:38 2K, and you can only run a 10:35 mile? And you have a running background? I find that very hard to believe.

wow that sucks

BMA Rower wrote:Ps. Staten Island half, hmm? I rowed for a school in NY state. If your school's program is not a club, I'm guessing you'll encounter my alma mater's lightweight program at some point.

Yeah, there are really not that many lightweight programs... my school is not a club, and I believe we will face off against your lightweight team in April.

Thanks again for all the advice. Hopefully I'll manage to win a few races rowing before I do my first half.

If you are interested in a hybrid running/rowing week with top notch coaching and instruction please take a look Craftsbury Outdoor Center's Run2Scull, Scull2Run week.

http://craftsbury.com/running/camps/scull2run.htm

Not sure how much it helps ones running, but I've found erg workouts to be amazing for all-around fitness. Many different muscle groups are targeted, can be aerobic or anaerobic, involves some degree of coordination. Great workout. It's too bad I almost never see anyone at gyms using ergs. They're also an amazing buy for a piece of rugged home fitness equipment at under a $1000 for a nice model. A good runner would destroy a treadmill of the same price. No, I do not work for Concept2. I do, however, highly recommend them.

bloop,

I did almost exactly what you're picturing, running a marathon off mostly erging training.

I was a coxswain, but erged maybe 100-120Km every week throughout college and for a few years beyond; mostly I'd do a 60-80 minute piece daily at 1:55 pace, with a 10 mile run on a weekend day and some 5k runs on weekdays. I ran Philly as a BQ and ran Boston off that training.

I have my training logs saved, if you're interested in the mix of erging and running mileage I used. But it's definitely doable.

-Jeff

[quote]incarnadine wrote:

I was a coxswain, but erged maybe 100-120Km every week throughout college and for a few years beyond; mostly I'd do a 60-80 minute piece daily at 1:55 pace, with a 10 mile run on a weekend day and some 5k runs on weekdays. I ran Philly as a BQ and ran Boston off that training./quote]Seriously? That's a mad amount of training for a coxswain. There are several walk-on light oarsmen I know that could not handle 70min at 1:55 every day, let alone with running added on, and not a chance if they had to stay at coxswain weight. Most of our coxswains sit around or maybe go on 3-mile jogs. Why didn't you want to row?

bloop wrote:

Well I just tried to run a mile and ended up in 10 minutes and 35 seconds running it as hard as I could. It looks like my dreams are shattered of running a marathon.

I tried to run another mile today but my muscles are sore all over. I didn't realize that running was so hard.

I went out and rowed for a couple of hours this morning. Maybe this will help me to run better next time.

Well I see someone registered my nickname, so I'll have to add an e on the end of it.

bloop e wrote:

bloop wrote:

Well I just tried to run a mile and ended up in 10 minutes and 35 seconds running it as hard as I could. It looks like my dreams are shattered of running a marathon.

I tried to run another mile today but my muscles are sore all over. I didn't realize that running was so hard.

I went out and rowed for a couple of hours this morning. Maybe this will help me to run better next time.

Well I see someone registered my nickname, so I'll have to add an e on the end of it.

___

you know nothing about rowing.

I was much better at long stuff than real distances. (I'd have to go check, but my 60 minute erg PR pace was something around 1:51, but my 2k PR was less great at 6:56.)

I was big for a coxswain at 5'6" or 5'7" and 130 pounds, but I have no doubt I would have failed to make our V8, even though we were only a NESCAC program. A barely sub-7:00 2k isn't powerful enough, and it would have taken me at least season to get technically proficient enough at sweep.

In short, it was much more rewarding to be the V8 cox than to hope against hope to be the last guy cut from the JV8 as a rower. I'd coxed for years since junior high school, so tossing it to be an undersized, underpowered rower wasn't what I wanted to do.

incarnadine wrote:

I was much better at long stuff than real distances. (I'd have to go check, but my 60 minute erg PR pace was something around 1:51, but my 2k PR was less great at 6:56.)

I was big for a coxswain at 5'6" or 5'7" and 130 pounds, but I have no doubt I would have failed to make our V8, even though we were only a NESCAC program. A barely sub-7:00 2k isn't powerful enough, and it would have taken me at least season to get technically proficient enough at sweep.

In short, it was much more rewarding to be the V8 cox than to hope against hope to be the last guy cut from the JV8 as a rower. I'd coxed for years since junior high school, so tossing it to be an undersized, underpowered rower wasn't what I wanted to do.

Wow, you were really MUCH better at the long stuff. I've seen 165 lb guys that do a 6:28 2K only manage a 1:51 on an hour test. Too bad, if the standard rowing event was the hour (or hell, even the marathon) you would be a monster at 130 pounds.

Maybe so, but thank God the standard rowing event is no longer than 2000m. It's painfully boring to watch for non-rowers as it is. (And it's tough enough to find good venues for six-lane straight 2k races, too. No, the Charles Basin doesn't count as "good.")

The 165 lb guy could have gotten his hour down to 1:47 or 1:45 pace pretty quickly, if anyone had demanded it, I'm sure. I was good at the power hour because I did dozens and dozens of them.

I know a 28y old guy, who did a 2:54 off professional rowing

this thread got me curious - I found a concept 2 erg and did a 500 meter piece - took me 1:50 and I was wasted. To do far better than that for 2000 meters is more than I can understand.

There may be some sublety in setting air vents or something, but still.

Hats off, rowers.

I rowed 4 years in college as a failed lightweight-turned heavyweight on a men's club team. Don't want to brag, but here are some stats as I was quite similar to the OP as a college freshman, trying to decide between rowing and running.

6'2 165 in HS...ran 4:39 mile/9:50 2mile. Went to college, wanted to walk on in track but wasn't fast enough. Started rowing, pulled 21:24 6k off the bat, got hooked because my endurance background was a perfect platform for the sport. Tried to be a lightweight but couldn't do it, and decided to just get as fast as possible regardless of weight.

Graduated with a 6:15 2k and 20:00 6k at 182 lbs. Rowed over the summer at a U23 training club in Philly. When the summer season ended in mid-August I decided I wanted to run a marathon in the fall. Despite running FEWER than 300 miles in 4 years (yes I kept track), I ran 3:02 off a massive training base. 6 months later, with 40-50 mpw of training, I ran 2:43 (getting back down to 170 lbs helped).

Long-winded response, but HERE'S THE KEY: SUCCESS IN THE MARATHON TAKES TIME. Hours and hours and hours of endurance training...and you can build a base a million different ways. Rowing is not the most direct way. But here's a secret: rowing allows you to train almost as much as you want, and if you use proper form your chances of injury are very slim. Which means that once you get the basics down, you can get right into 150-200km a week on the water/erg and not get injured. Furthermore, never discount the team aspect of the sport. Looking back I wouldn't have traded my team experience in rowing for anything in the world.

The marathon is a lonely sport, one that you can do as an adult with your own busy work schedule. Take advantage of a team sport amid the structure that college offers.

i am friends with some runners, and am generally just fascinated by the sport. perhaps because i am so bad at it (seriously....i ran 5k in just under 28 minutes this morning as part of my cross training....that level of slow) i am fascinated by those who excel at it.

but anyway, these responses are certainly interesting!

Tiocfaidh ar la,

What club in Philly?

The 20:00 6k is good. I never could row a decent 6k... it seemed like the perfect distance to maximize misery, much worse than the 2k or the hour.

RE: incarnadine,

I rowed at Penn AC. To the OP, sorry to hijack the thread, there are some good nuggets in here (esp from BMA rower).

ok, just to shake things up, I am going to try to row 5000 meters 3 times per week all winter in addition to 50 mpw running.

I want to get stronger, and that should help. And mentally - I could use a break.

I'm hoping it will help my explosiveness for the 1500/5000.

Rowing is far too slow a movement to help anyone's "explosiveness." A very quick pace is still only 40 strokes per minute; you simply aren't moving your limbs very fast in the sport of rowing.

A 5k row is only going to take you around 20 minutes. I think it's a great thing to do, in terms of getting in more aerobic conditioning while sparing you some pounding on the road, but keep in mind that it's going to be a pretty short workout.

You will get stronger in your biceps, rear delts, quads, glutes, and other muscle groups. I don't know that this is specifically helpful to running, but general strength is good in and of itself.