HEPS 2012 INDOOR

C/M Runner wrote:

Thanks for the on-site details and clarification. So Blair may be a multi-eventer as well? It seems like Cornell gives everyone the option of going that route...

Cornell does indeed seem to have many in the multis, especially on the men's side. In part they can "afford" to do that, because they have big squads and don't have to throw all their best athletes into multiple individual events, just to maximize team scoring.

But of course at the Heps there's a squad limitation, so depth doesn't help as much--all the teams are essentially the same size--and you have to decide whether to "waste" an athlete, who could score in two or more individual events, on doing a multi. Luckily for Cornell, they have enough multi folks to cover both individual events (e.g. Huber) and pent/hept/dec at the Heps.

At the least, when you train a lot of people for multis you have a better chance of finding their best individual events. I knew a DIII coach who had considerable success, even though his recruiting was quite restricted: in the fall, he had everyone who wasn't running xc train for the decathlon or heptathlon.

I used to coach some and remember that a great number of people have become better in their specialty events *after* taking up multis. The outstanding example that comes first to mind is Bill Toomey, who was a quality quarter-miler before focusing on the decathlon--but never close to the 45.6 he ran in Mexico City at the end of Day I.

puwillthrowthehammer wrote:

Merber vs. Callahan in the mile at heps is going to be crazy

Though it'd be a great match up, whos to say they will race each other in the mile. Merber ran the 3k in his last indoor Heps, while Callahan has run the 800 and 1k respectively in his two years competing at indoor Heps. Guys like the two of them have such good range that we never know which event they plan to run.

Dartmouth women are hoping to hit the DMR auto standard (11:03.50) tonight at New Balance. Abbey D'Agostino doing the 1600m, Alexi Pappas on the 1200m, league leader Megan Krumpoch on the 400m, and Christina Supino on the 800m. I hope they do make it.

It would still be nice to see.

Looks like Callahan will have a chance to go up against PSU\'s Robby Creese in the Mile tomorrow. Saw on their site in an interview that he is running the mile and Stilin is too.

After this weekend we will see if a Princeton Callahan, Stilin, Cabral, Van Ackeren 4xmile is a legit team or not.

trruebut wrote:

After this weekend we will see if a Princeton Callahan, Stilin, Cabral, Van Ackeren 4xmile is a legit team or not.

I am more curious on what a DMR result with that combo right now... no Princeton DMR at New Balance, but Columbia will have one (no Merber, I guess he's resting up for Millrose)

6 Columbia 'A'

1) Everett, Daniel 2) Boyd, Kevin

3) Claflin, Connor 4) Jones, Byron

Anybody volunteer to score a "virtual" Heps, once this weekend's marks make it onto the Ivy list (

http://tfrrs.org/lists/787.html

)?

I realize that the relay/multi marks may still be really deceptive, so perhaps it should be scored without those. Or maybe with and without?

As of 2/4, from TFRRS/Direct athletics performance lists:

Cornell 173

Princeton 166

Harvard 83

Columbia 60

Dartmouth 43

Penn 34

Brown 29

Yale 28

Only 5 and 4 schools have run the 4x8 and DMR, respectively, so there are 4 more points on the board.

That was for the Men (sorry for any confusion).

Scores in events which seem shaky right now (meaning current results might not be indicative of heps scores in that event):

Hept:

Cornell 28

Brown 3

4x8:

Princeton 10

Yale 8

Cornell 6

Columbia 4

Dartmouth 2

DMR:

Princeton 10

Harvard 8

Yale 6

Penn 4

Thanks!!!

It'll be interesting to see how the marks change (not too much, maybe?) once this weekend's results are included.

And yeah, I agree that the Cornell guys aren't too likely to score 28 in the hept...

Princeton junior Peter Callahan is the 3rd Ivy Leaguer ever sub 4:00 indoors today at Penn State - winning the Sykes & Sabock in 3:58.86

http://www.gopsusports.com/livestats/c-track/12sybock/120204F011.htm

Wow, congrats to Peter! And thanks for the info

Ancient Ivy wrote:

Princeton junior Peter Callahan is the 3rd Ivy Leaguer ever sub 4:00 indoors today at Penn State - winning the Sykes & Sabock in 3:58.86

http://www.gopsusports.com/livestats/c-track/12sybock/120204F011.htm

Callahan's time is the third fastest indoor mile for the ivies as Kyle merger (3:58.52) and bill Burke ( princeton 1991 3:58.70) have run faster.

Cornell's marks from this weekend's Ithaca College meet, including Nick Huber's League-leading heptathlon (

http://bombers.ithaca.edu/custompages/mtrun/1112/Feb5Heptathlon.pdf

), have been added to the Ivy performance list (

http://tfrrs.org/lists/787.html

).

Cornell has now had three men over 5,000 points this season, with a fourth just under. Huber now also has *individual* top-25 marks in six events (all the hept events, minus the 1000).

Does anyone know of other weekend results from Ivies that have yet to be posted? If so, please say so; if not, maybe I'll go ahead and put together a virtual scoring.

Okay. I pulled the top six marks (only five times listed in the men's 4x8) in each event off the Ivy performance list, scored them 10-8-6-4-2-1, and totalled them.

Caveats:

*I went with the marks on the list. If some meet results from this weekend (or earlier) aren't yet on the list, they're not in this total.

*I may have screwed up the arithmetic, though I was trying to check as I went. I won't check it again.

*I'm only listing whole numbers. Half the teams actually get fractions after the whole number.

*I paid absolutely no attention to likely/unlikely/impossible doubles. If a guy was listed as leading both the 400 and 500 lists, I gave his team 20 points. If a top guy in the 3,000 hasn't posted a 5,000 time yet (*cough* Princeton *cough*), I didn't speculate on what might happen.

*I also didn't speculate on relay times; a majority of the relays don't seem to show anything like the kinds of performances we can expect at Heps.

Here we go:

Women's events minus relays and pentathlon

Cornell 102, Columbia 88, Harvard 74, Princeton 59, Dartmouth 50, Penn 24, Brown 24, Yale 11

Women's events with relays, minus pentathlon

Cornell 116, Columbia 98, Princeton 79, Harvard 78, Dartmouth 54, Penn 32, Brown 25, Yale 12

Women's events with pentathlon, minus relays

Cornell 102, Harvard 92, Columbia 88, Dartmouth 62, Princeton 59, Penn 25, Brown 24, Yale 11

All women's events

Cornell 116, Columbia 98, Harvard 96, Princeton 79, Dartmouth 66, Penn 33, Brown 25, Yale 12

Notes:

The "stealth" candidate here is Harvard. With most of its points projected in the field/pent, people (like Cornell's spectators) may tend to overlook this team, which has the personnel to score much better in the relays than its current four points. This team is absolutely a contender for the championship.

Columbia is also very much in the hunt for the title, with potential points in nearly every event area and the possibility of even more than their projected 22 points in the mile/3k/5k. Even without Sharay Hale, this team could win.

The current favorite: Cornell, with top-six marks in every event but pentathlon--OTOH they scored in every event last year and were not very close to the win! If Columbia, Princeton (which *right now* doesn't seem to have enough bodies to defend the team title), and especially Dartmouth double (or triple?) their personnel in the longer races, Cornell's projected 27 points in the mi/3k/5k could be significantly reduced.

My pick: Cornell, but only because of homefield advantage. I think the meet will be a fantastic competition and still in the balance right through to the relays--and may actually hang on the last couple of field events.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Men's survey tomorrow. G'night.

da coach wrote:

*I paid absolutely no attention to likely/unlikely/impossible doubles. If a guy was listed as leading both the 400 and 500 lists, I gave his team 20 points. If a top guy in the 3,000 hasn't posted a 5,000 time yet (*cough* Princeton *cough*), I didn't speculate on what might happen.

Did you note that not all events listed at TFRRS are competed at Heps? Like the women don't do the 500m or 1000m and the men don't do the 200m?

Its fun but hard to project points still at this point. For example Columbia's 4x8 ran very fast (avergaed 151 low a guy) but don't have anyone with a posted mark yet in the 800m.

Now for the men.

Men's events minus relays and heptathlon

Princeton 152, Cornell 130, Columbia 70, Harvard 58, Dartmouth 21, Penn 15, Brown 14, Yale 3

Men's events with relays, minus heptathlon

Princeton 164, Cornell 145, Columbia 98, Harvard 62, Penn 31, Dartmouth 27, Brown 15, Yale 13

Men's events with heptathlon, minus relays

Cornell 160, Princeton 152, Columbia 70, Harvard 58, Dartmouth 21, Penn 15, Brown 15, Yale 3

All men's events

Cornell 175, Princeton 164, Columbia 98, Harvard 62, Penn 31, Dartmouth 27, Brown 16, Yale 13

Notes:

No stealth contender here: the title should be between Princeton and Cornell once again. But the winner is unlikely, based on the current marks, to beat the total score of the Other Six, possibly heralding a long-overdue move toward greater competitive parity in the men's meets.

Columbia has tremendous scoring potential on the track. Merber in the 1,000 and 3,000 seems an unlikely double (though Cornell's Wyner attempted something similar a few years back!); but the rest of those projected running points come from different individuals, a large group that could double back for the relays and make the Lions contenders for a win in each of the baton events. This team is markedly improved.

Harvard looks strong in the sprints and field events, particularly the throws, and could score more than the four points that their listed marks currently project in the relays. They've shown great team spirit this season, and they'll have a shot at putting several guys on the top of the awards stand in individual events.

Cornell is projected to score more than 80 points in the field, with double-figure scoring in five of the six jumps/throws; plus an additional 30(!) points in the heptathlon, based on the list's current marks. This should help offset their big hole in the distance events.

But I have to go with Princeton as my pick for a solid team win. The Tigers' current marks are worth more than 100 points in individual track events, and that's with zero current points in the 5,000. Their quarter-milers and middle-distance crew could, if needed, probably score twice the twelve points that their current relay times project. And Cornell's scoring 30 points in the hept? Not likely.

About the only scenario that I could see working for the Big Red would be if Columbia, Dartmouth, and Brown tried to get the maximum possible individual-event points from their middle-distance and distance crews, diluting (a little, perhaps) Princeton's scoring in those races. But with no team title in prospect for those three squads in this meet, and the possibility of big-meet honors in the following weeks, it's hard to imagine that their coaches (especially Dartmouth's and Brown's) would opt for doubling or tripling their top guys here; a focus on top placings in single events seems more likely.

Bottom line: Princeton might possibly have the meet in hand, even before the relays begin; but if things don't break their way in the Day II finals and (especially) field events, they should have the talent to seal the win in the baton races.

At least that's how it looks to me. Now.

C/M Runner wrote:

Did you note that not all events listed at TFRRS are competed at Heps? Like the women don't do the 500m or 1000m and the men don't do the 200m?

Yes, I only scored Heps events. So no women's DMR, either.

725? wrote:

[It's] fun but hard to project points still at this point.

Yeah, another of my caveats should have been "for entertainment purposes only"!

This coming weekend should shake things up a lot; the weekend after that, not so much, because--even if teams are competing--a lot of points-contending runners are likely to go with shorter races than they'll run at Heps. So a virtual scoring next week (or the week after)--which I'll let someone else do--should give a much clearer picture.

For example Columbia's 4x8 ran very fast ([averaged 1:51] low a guy) but [they] don't have anyone with a posted mark yet in the 800m.

Exactly right, and their current (listed) hole in the 800 is one of the things that make me think Columbia might crack 100 points in this meet. What an improvement that would be!