Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 11/6

I hope to get caught up with all the great training and races later this week. For now, nice work everyone.

Upcoming Race: Turkey Trot 8k

Tentative Goal Race: Illinois Marathon (4/29)

Goal Time: sub-2:30

M- 5 (v. easy recovery run from 50k)

Tu- off (all soreness gone from Saturday except charlie horse in rt. quad)

W- am- 7 pm- 5 (soreness is completely gone)

Th- 8 (strides, one long one- 800m in 2:45)

F- am- 6 pm- 5

Sa- 22.5 (This run was split into three intervals. I ran up to a local race --6.5mi--, waited around 45min for the start, paced my buddy in the race --15k-- hung out for a bit and then ran home)

Su- 5.5

Tot- 64mi/6d

Still getting back into a groove after the marathon and 50k. I'll probably attempt my first "structured" workout this week in hopes of waking up my legs for the upcoming Turkey trot.

Race: CIM

Goal: 2:3high

94miles

workouts

1. 8x600hill

2. 17miles with 7miles HR130 10miles HR159(6min pace), not terrible

des - seriously nice runs, they are in the bank, stay positive.

What a great day for a run around New York. I went out for a run and found the roads wide open and people giving me water every mile or so. Seriously, the New York Marathon is one of the coolest experiences an amatuer athlete can have.

The first 9 miles of the NYC Marathon are a blast. I tried to High-Five as many kids as possible. Then, after mile 9, it was then time to got to work.

As Pablo said, I hit my goal time (2:57:26). But I did it in the only way I knew how. I went out too fast and held on for dear life.

Once I got in the 6:30's grove in Brooklyn, I made the decision to stick with it as long as I could and maybe come in under 2:54 or something. I also had no confidence that I could dial it back and hit even 6:45 splits through the end of the race.

I held my pace pretty well until the Queensboro Bridge, that's where I saw people starting to crack. I got to 1st ave and held on ok, but I really struggled from mile 21 on. The hill on mile 22 took a lot out of me.

I was probably hitting sub 7:00's from mile 17-21, but I couldn't get under 7:10 from 22-26.

I'm happy with my time. But down deep, I know I faded pretty hard. I think there's a sub 2:54 still in me. I need to just train it out of me.

Thanks to all you folks here on this thread for being so cool. I may not have responded to all your posts during this cycle, but I read all of them and rooted for you on and off the roads.

Sincerely,

Printer86

Aim: ~2:44 next May

Mon.—10mi.

Tues.—9mi. (8:00)

Wed.—10mi. (w/ 5mi. climbing)

Thurs.—12mi. on trails (7:29)

Fri.—10mi. (w/ 5mi. climbing)

Sat.—10mi. (7:29)

Sun.—14mi. on trail (7:25)

Week: 75 miles. I am putting off the start of a buildup for a spring marathon for two more weeks due to approaching deadlines at work. Even without real workouts or the feeling that I’m straining, I feel stronger than I was a month ago. So I found myself running further and faster today than planned, on a very rough, hilly trail at altitude. The lingering tightness and strain in the back and abductors that stems from last spring’s bout of piriformis syndrome has almost disappeared. I just realized yesterday that I was able to put socks and pants on without sitting in a chair.

pablo - you're right back on it. As you've said before, maintaining an easy pace on your easy runs is really important for getting a proper recovery. That's always been something you've done pretty well.

sam - 3rd place. Good work.

rhrunner - Amazing. Course record for a 50k. Well done to you sir!

cyhawk - I don't think 10 miles and a half marathon at target pace is what you need. They are two pretty tough sessions. For my last two weeks I tend to take a standard week and scale down the volume but not the intensity, as then throw in an extra rest day or two.

ZaTTu - Nice week. Fairly high volume - are you targeting a race in the short term or just building a huge base for London? Cannon Hill Parkrun (my local) is very flat with a few tight corners. On the whole it's a fairly quick one. My best there is 15:40 and my actual PB is 15:31.

tiger - I would say option 2 sounds the most sensible at the moment!

blaznbison - that 4x5k is a monster session. You're flying at the moment.

stamford - sounds tough. At least you didn't do a Keitany. Looking forward to hearing how the race played out.

printer - Congratulations. Exactly what you said you'd do!

marathonE - for our HM preparation we are doing a shortened version of the marathon schedule we are going to try in the spring. It is 2 weeks of fairly easy running at as high a volume as we can manage (the last two weeks), two weeks of hills - about 2 or 3 sessions per week alternating long reps and short sprints, then 2 weeks of speedwork - track stuff with short recoveries, then a couple of weeks of longer sessions, all the while increasing the pace of the long run. I can send you the schedule if you're interested.

blaznbison24 wrote:

I decided to be more gung ho, and shoot for 2:19 (but will be pleased with sub 2:22).

That's great to hear! I think that's a good decision. I remember you saying there will be a few guys gunning for the standard at Rocket City anyway. No sense in getting stuck in no-man's land when you'll have a pack to run with.

Tiger_runner - Option 2. It sounds like you're teetering on the edge of burnout and you could use a break. Also, to be frank, I don't think you're ready for a 1:16:40 half as it is right now. Take 2 weeks off, build back the mileage SLOWLY, and set yourself up for a great spring. Have you talked this over with your coach?

1st timer - Holy crap, 27 miles on Sunday?! That's a huge day, was that planned or were you just feeling good on Sunday?

youngrunner1 - Good week. Those are some quick paces for someone shooting for 2:50-55, you may want to consider slowing some of those runs down. BTW, I was 3rd overall at Disney earlier this year, so if you need any advice/tips/info about the race...feel free to ask.

HMArunner - A 25 week program is a very long cycle. I'm sure it has it's benefits, especially for someone coming from a low mileage background. But you've still got to be careful not to do too much too soon.

Abu - I'm in awe at how quickly you've recovered from the 50k. Good to see you've decided on a spring marathon to have another crack at 2:29....you're definitely there on the right day.

Hans - Good week for someone who hasn't started training yet!

Goal Philly ~ 2:26

M: 80'

T: 80' + strides

W: 6 x (5' w 2:15 rest) + 15'wm/15'cd

H: 80'

F: 80' uptempo + 15' easy

S: 80'

S: 55' easy + 45 uptempo

~ 92 miles

Working on the taper. Solid.

Alright death march in detail...

Mile 1: 6:00 (up the bridge)

Mile 2: 5:34 (down the bridge)

Mile 3: 5:42

Mile 4: 5:43

Mile 5: 5:43

Mile 6: 5:43

Mile 7: 5:44

Mile 8: 5:48

The first 3 miles were by myself as I started in the green corral and there was no one to run with. All 3 corrals met up after the 5k mark and then I stayed with a group of 15-20 people. I knew my times were a little quick, but honestly it felt like I was out for a normal Sunday long run. The pace was coming to me so easy. My breathing was totally relaxed and it really felt like I was jogging. I got water or gatorade at miles 3 and 6...only a few sips though.

Mile 9: 6:01 (uphill mile)

Mile 10: 5:51

Mile 11: 6:05

Alright these 3 miles my legs quickly started to lose their juice. I took my first gel before mile 9 and probably didn't take in enough water with it.

Mile 12: 5:56

Mile 13: 6:12

HM: 1:16:52

My half split was just off pace, but I already knew I was in for a longggg second half of the race. I was now starting to get side stitches.

Mile 14: 6:28

Mile 15: 7:27 (Had to stop for a minute my side stitched up so bad)

Mile 16: 8:32

Going up the Queensborough bridge was torture. I stopped multiple times and was praying for the next water station to come soon.

Mile 17/18: 17:10 (saw my gf and stopped for a few seconds since at this point I knew any reasonable time was out the window. I got a real boost from this though and vowed to finish no matter what.

Miles 19-23: 8:36, 7:37, 7:21, 7:15, 7:26

I took a second gel around mile 18 and was now drinking lots of gatorade and water at each station. It actually helped get rid of the side stitches for 4 miles...although my legs were already trashed. Going up 5th avenue was tough!

Mile 24: 8:13 (stitched up again at the top of 5th ave)

Mile 25: 7:51

Mile 26: 7:11

Last 0.2: 1:29

Finish: 2:58:48

I was so happy to be finished, although greatly disappointed in myself. I learned the hard way how important fuel/fluids consumption is. It's obviously not nearly as important in shorter races. I was glad I kept at it though as I had lots of friends and family supporting me and couldn't bare to face the possibility of not finishing. Surprisingly my achilles was never an issue. I actually had no sharp pains or injury type pains...just lots of soreness.

Even if I had the fluids thing figured out, 2:33 would of been tough as I definitely would of slowed down the second half of the race. I have even more respect for all you guys as this was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I am glad I went through the experience of training and racing a marathon. I am ready to head back to the track though and run the shorter races that I am better at. I'll probably still do some half marathons though since I ran one well this year off of largely base training. I'm going to take at least 10 days off and let my legs and achilles heal up well. I can barely walk today.

Stamford, you also didn't have an ideal buildup. Don't know what the splits were, but when you didn't revise your time down after a few weeks of not ideal training, and with never really getting the mileage up, I was a little concerned. You have great potential in the marathon, but if I were to offer some advice, it would be to run more, and go in less aggressive. If I recall, your highest weeks were in the 60s, and the long marathon type work just wasn't there.

Liberty, another solid week. Taper.

Since Chicago my training has been thus:

Week 1: 0

Week 2: 0

Week 3: 4, 6, 6 = 16 miles

Week 4: 7, 2.5, 15.5 with a friend in NYC.

The 15 yesterday shredded my hamstrings. The last 3 or 4 miles were pretty painful, actually. Jumped in at 10.5 and went pretty much to 26... jumping out at the Time Warner Center. My friend was looking to break 3:00, but didn't have it. Ended up at 3:06:08. Considering she had to take nearly 8 weeks off with a stress fracture, only starting to run again in July, though, it wasn't bad. Had she been able to muster sub 3:00, not sure if I could have hung!

Will probably take A while completely off now. Maybe even until the new year... just to let everything heal up. Running yesterday was a reminder that my hip/hammy is a very real issue. May consider seeing a bunch of docs to see if I can do anything about it. Even if it means surgery... would rather do that and never worry about it again. Something is impeding my sciatic nerve, so if I can figure out what and release it, I think I will be a new man. Can afford to do that now that I'm retired and missing a bunch of time won't matter.

That's the one pablo though it may still class as a bit masochistic :-)

Tiger_runner - sounds like you could do with a bit of downtime and relaxed running.

Nice week blaznbison, particularly the 4 x 5k. Nice target too.

Well done printer86. Hard way to do it, but target achieved!

brumrunner - a mere 4s per mile slower than your course pb despite it feeling tough can't be knocked at this stage. I haven't got a race planned until January (and even then it's a very hilly local 10k that's just for fun). The intention is to focus on getting some consistent mileage/weeks under my belt as it's been a long while since I ran bigger weeks. I've got a basic week scheduled that is lower than I've done in the past which I hope means I should be able to knock it out week in, week out (hopefully from this week on). Consistency is key to my plan.

Sounds like a tough one stamford branch, but well done for sticking it out.

Conto - You are absolutely right. It was definitely not an ideal buildup, but I thought I still had a solid level of fitness to perform well. The marathon pace felt very easy to me, but I never got to extend that pace to 10, 12, 15 miles in a workout. My overall mileage was lower than others here, but still had multiple weeks in the 70s, and a few in the 80s back in August. A large part of not doing more miles is that I had never averaged over 60 going into this training period. But yes, I was a little over zealous going into the race. Live and learn!

pablo and brumrunner - thank you for the input, i'll scale the marathon paced portion of my race way back. i did want to see what my goal pace felt like after ~10mi in a race situtation, but it probably is too close to the race and better to just take it easier.

Philadelphia Marathon

Goal: Sub 2:19:00

Mon- 10M

Tue- 14M

Wed- 16M (5x2M)10:24,10:30,10:24,10:21,10:21

Thu- 6M/12M

Fri- 20M Long Run

Sat- 12M

Sun- 5M/16M (6x800)2:26,2:23,2:19,2:26,2:15,2:24

Total: 111 Miles

Great week, No it's 2 weeks away from Marathon, will do 90 this week, then 50-60 next week!

hope everyone's training is going great!!!

The Marathon Training People- I talked to my coach for a good hour last night about the whole situation and we agreed upon taking a week by week approach to the HM.

This first week will involve just some miles. 60-75 depending on feel, maybe a relaxed fartlek on Saturday to keep turnover and a long run Sunday.

If I feel like I have some more in the tank next week we will go for that week. It will involve two workouts, the second a 10 mile tempo/time trial at the goal pace of 5:55 a mile. If I can't meet that then running the HM is not gonna happen. Then I will take a break from running and go with option 2. If I run the workout with the goal pace then we will go and chase the standard.

Thanks for everyone's support, I would like to just break it down and shoot for a HM in the spring but the HM is tailored to getting people qualified, the course is dead flat and point to point going the direction of the wind. It is usually quite windy in December in the Midwest so I fell these are all to my advantage.

Overall I feel like I can run miles physically, trying to get that mental race mode back is were I have struggled this season.

InfuseMarathoner wrote:

Philadelphia Marathon

Goal: Sub 2:19:00

Hey InfuseMarathoner - we are shooting for the same thing @ Philly, and I'm guessing there will be some others as well. If you are interested in packing up and sharing some of the work / pacing with me, shoot me an email.

pablo

based on my quick paces would it make more sense to keep the same goal and slow the paces, or keep the quicker pace and hope for a better time...my problem is this will be my first marathon so I really do not know what I'd be capable of. I ran 1:23 in my first half several weeks ago, though I feel I had a good bit more if I did not run the first 3 or so miles as fast as I did

In regards to Disney, I hear the course is on a lot of on/off ramps and back roads, not terribly exciting.I'm slightly nervous about the 545 start, though I will probably just do some runs about that time at some point.

OK, here goes.

I've posted a few weeks of training on here in the last 4-5 months, so I figure I'll post up the race report. It's an exciting roller coaster of a race.

Goal Race: NYC 11/6/2011

Goal Time: 2:39:59 (debut marathon)

warm up: 0.0 miles, stretched my IT bands for a minute or two on the bridge.

mile 1: 6:14 up the bridge. didnt notice the incline with all the excitement

mile 2: 5:26 flying back down into brooklyn. ditched the hat, gloves, and arm warmers

mile 3: 5:46

mile 4: 5:49

mile 5: 5:55 (29:10) wanted to be around 30:00 or slower, but got caught up in the excitement

mile 6: 5:49

mile 7: 5:51

mile 8: 5:54

mile 9: 5:51

mile 10: 5:46 (58:21) 2:33 pace, still too fast, but feeling like I was barely running, just out roaming the streets with ~1,000,000 people cheering for me

mile 11: 6:03

mile 12: 5:51

mile 13: 6:00

half way: 1:16:55 about 2 minutes faster than I wanted to go out but still felt like I was just out for a run. stamford branch, you and I must have been running together over the pulaski bridge. red and black jersey. I also happen to be a fairfield county native.

mile 14: 5:55

mile 15: 6:05 (1:28:15) still on 2:34 pace, starting to wonder if things were going really well or if the turning point was quickly approaching.

mile 16: 5:58

mile 17: 7:45. In a split second, the race changed very very suddenly. I was killin' it running down first avenue when my hamstring locked up with a charlie horse at 75th and first. leaned over to stretch, tried walking, and it tightened again. kicked it out, tried walking, and it tightened again. finally sat down despite a thousand people cheering me to keep going. stretched it and tried to rub it out for a little, then got up and started jogging again. Once I got moving, first avenue erupted in cheers. that feeling was a hundred times better than either crossing the finish line or laying down afterward. lost about a minute and a half with the stretching but was back to full stride very quickly.

mile 18: 5:34. now I'm out for blood.

mile 19: 5:37

mile 20: 5:48 (1:58:57) still somehow well ahead of goal pace (~2:02:00) despite the first avenue crisis.

mile 21: 5:54

mile 22: 6:01 start to wonder if I'm actually going to pull off an unbelievable race out of nowhere.

mile 23: 6:28 just as I start thinking things are going great, the hamstring locks up again and I stop for a little bit to loosen it up. only lost maybe 20 seconds.

mile 24: 7:22 the hardest mile I've ever run in my entire life. I think this is where I started to hit the wall. the hill on 5th avenue leading up to the park was undoubtedly the hardest part of the course. once we made the turn into the park, the hamstring locked up a third and final time. lost maybe 30 seconds shaking it out and stretching. slowest mile of actual running in the entire race (probably ~6:45-7:00)

mile 25: 6:17 semblances of a rally. bonking hard but trying to stay on my feet and moving forward.

mile 26: 6:19 ironically, when I saw 800 meters to go, that was the first time I honestly didn't know if I would make it to the finish line alive or not. leaning like a falling tree.

last 0.2: 1:26 unfortunately I have no recollection of running in front of the grand stands or seeing the people cheering or crossing the finish line. I remember parts of approaching columbus circle, then limping away from the finish with a heat sheet wanting to lie down somewhere. took about 10 minutes to walk a quarter mile to the med tent, sat down with a blanket and gatorade shivering and wanting to die. started feeling better about an hour later. limped to a taxi covered in layers and layers of sweatshirts and jackets from family members. rode to my brothers apartment a few blocks away where I laid like a corpse watching the replay of the elites on tv. didn't start passing fluids through until around 5PM.

final time: 2:38:44

total "running" time: ~2:36:xx (not that that means anything)

very happy to be done. once I recovered nutritionally, I didnt feel too terrible, nor did I feel too bad this morning. around 2PM today (monday), things started going south real fast. I couldnt get out of my chair, I couldnt climb or descend stairs without lifting 90% of my weight with my arms. legs are giving out just limping along flat surfaces. laying in bed for the next 12 hours. not running again until at least thanksgiving. no more marathons until probably boston 2013.

congrats to all the NYC guys and gals. a gorgeous day to be out running in a beautiful city with 47,000 other runners.

also a huge thank you to wi|fredo and family for giving me a place to crash the night before and lots of very helpful advice and last minute tips. I hope I can eventually repay the favor.

now it's eating season.

Newyork People - way to get it done out there.

Stamford - you did it the hard way, no doubt. Props for hanging in.

Tiger Runner - sounds like it will be good to take some pressure off of yourself for a bit. That 1:16 mark is no joke - the 2:46 or w/e seems a lot softer in terms of age grade etc. but not sure if you wanna go through running two 'thons.

RhRunner - your a sick, sick man. Congrats on the W.

Thanks for the congrats. I got myself 10 pairs of new running socks with my prize gift card. :)

youngrunner1 wrote:

pablo

based on my quick paces would it make more sense to keep the same goal and slow the paces, or keep the quicker pace and hope for a better time...my problem is this will be my first marathon so I really do not know what I'd be capable of. I ran 1:23 in my first half several weeks ago, though I feel I had a good bit more if I did not run the first 3 or so miles as fast as I did

In regards to Disney, I hear the course is on a lot of on/off ramps and back roads, not terribly exciting.I'm slightly nervous about the 545 start, though I will probably just do some runs about that time at some point.

With a 1:23 half and the fact that it's your first marathon, this tells me you're much closer to 2:55 than 2:50. Your only runs that should be under 7:00 pace should be your marathon paced (MP) runs. Your long runs should be closer to 8:00 pace than 7:00 pace, as should every other "non-workout run", some even over 8:00 pace.

I get the feeling you've got plenty of speed and youth on your side (BTW, how old are you?). You now need to work on your endurance.

The Disney course itself is mostly on back roads/service roads. It does meander through all the theme parks, but that only makes about 4 miles total of the marathon. There's only a few "hills" in the race, being the on ramps you speak of...there's not a lot though. At 2:55 pace, you should have a few decent groups to help pace with.

The early start time isn't all that bad, but then again, I'm an early bird...and I do most of my runs at 5:45-6am. The main problem I found was the 2:30am wake up call to get ready to race. You will be running in the dark for over half the race, and that's something many people fail to realize. Race logistics (hotel/transportation/etc.) can be a nightmare, but I really won't get into that just yet. Just remind me as the time gets closer and I'll give you some more pointers.

yagtash - Simply awesome! Way to nail your goal...and then some. I think most people go out a little too quick in their first one, but most people definitely don't hold on as well as you did. Did you drink enough out on the course? The hamstrings cramping sounds like you were low on fluids. Plus you mentioned you didn't pass fluids until 5pm that evening...suggesting you were dehydrated. Despite the ideal conditions (cool and calm), you still need adequate fluids during the race, even if you don't feel you need to at the time.

Either way, you beat your goal your first time out, and that is something to be proud of! Congrats and recover well.