Should you STILL limit the long run to 25%, 2hour or 20 miles during marathon training?

If you're talking about they Hanson plan described in the link below, it's a 14 day cycle with a 16 miler every othr week, it has your marathon pace workout, and it's around 50 mpw in the novice version. Why don't you just start with that template?

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=4447&PageNum=1

Depending on your ultimate goals, have you considered that your long-term progress might actually be better by holding off on marathons for a while?

The reason I ask is, you sound like you realize that at your level of mileage, you are not able to prepare optimally for a marathon. In another year or two of building, your mileage will hopefully be at a more optimal level to safely fit in appropriate-length long runs, etc..

If instead of forcing the "square" marathon peg into your "round" current fitness hole, why not train optimally for a 10k, or half marathon? This would allow you to be more aggresive with your workouts, have a reasonable long-run, stay healthy, and probably get a heck of a lot faster. Then, when you're at the 60-70 mpw down the road, you can apply your better fitness to the marathon goal.

Considering you've been injured for both marathon cycles, you've probably figured out that it's tough to improve when you can't run. Stay healthy, and at least consider that stretching for a marathon might not be the best way for a relatively new runner to stay healthy and improve.

Best of luck to you!

I wouldn't put a cap on my long run limit. I've run 30 miles, and I'm training for 5k-10k.

I work directly with the Hanson's Training Plan, and have a couple thoughts. First, I agree with the "Square Peg in a Round Hole" While a 3-4 day/week plan can get you to finish a marathon, it's not going to help you run your best marathon. If that's all you can do, then maybe a marathon isn't going to be something you can really reach your potential in. A 10k to half may be a better race for you.

From my experience, most people have problem adding mileage because they want to add the wrong things, or hammer every run, or try to cram mileage in over the weekend when they have more time. Once they've fixed those issues, they can handle 60, 70, or more miles a week.

Our beginner program peaks out at about 60 miles a week and the long run comes out to be 25-30% of the week. I think the time factor is a big issue, if you are out there 2.5-3.5 hours trying to get a 20 miler in, then you really are doing more damage than good.

Why? Because you have to recover so much before your next workout. If you can bring back the long run to a managble distance/time, then you can add more days during the week. The key to a long run that doesn't have the traditional 20 miler is that you have to supplement it with consecutive days before and after so that you aren't completely fresh going into the long run.

Anyway, hope that helps- Luke

I've had good luck with keeping the long run at or below 20%. Focus on getting weekly mileage up, spread fairly evenly over each day instead of loading a bunch of miles on one day. You still get the results but it seems, to me anyway, to be easier on the body.

Do what that 80 year old guy does, which I think is 3 hours per day.

--- thanks all for the responses so far, greatly appreciated. I do agree as well with the square in the box, but I'm stubborn and think building mileage and marathon experience will help in the future as well. Been running for 2 years only starting at 27 so mileage resistance is not a skill I have.

In terms of potential it's too far to say, eg my 10k 'PR' went from 1:05:00 to 50' to 45, 42' and 39' in 18 months on 20-25 mpw. I've ever been able to maintain 35-40, but I've recently made it on weeks that look like this:

Mon off

Tue 7 easy/aerobic

Wed trail w/ short hills sprints (5 mi)

Thu 8 progressive tempo run (last mi at 5-10k pace)

Fri recovery 4mi

Sat easy 6

Sun long 10 progressive (some MP or HMP near end)

@Luke I may try Hanson...do you think the below, or even 30-35mpw is a sufficient base? Haven't run more than 10 since my last marathon 9 months ago

Also @Luke: didn't Hanson use a 9 day training cycle in the past as "SOS-easy-easy" x 3, with one of the SOS being a long run? That seemed interesting to me, running long every 9 days only

LR wrote:

... I do agree as well with the square in the box, but I'm stubborn and think building mileage and marathon experience will help in the future as well...

Just to clarify, my suggestion does not exclude building mileage. Even if you were to stick with 10k-Half training, I would absolutely encourage you to build mileage as aggressively as possible.

I'm just suggesting avoiding the marathon for a while, which will allow you to avoid the disproportionately-long long runs, which will allow you to be less beat up from that disproportionately-long long run, which will allow you to fit in more "stuff" the other six days of the week (including more quality and quite possibly MORE mileage).

Ironically, you would probably be able to run MORE miles on a 10k-Half marathon program (versus a marathon program) with a relatively shorter long run because you would be able to better utilize the days immediately before and immediately after the long run rather than be so beat up that you have to recover a bunch.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

hey craaazy thoughts,

It's clear now no worries and I do agree with absolutely avoiding the 'epic' disproportional long rus...just hard to pinpoint where disproportional starts!

I may try running 7 days w/ 4 easy days and maybe even add 2 three milers the AM of my PM workouts to loosen up, I would instantly move from 40mpw to 50 w/o even feeling it too much

From here we'll see about the marathon, I won't let it influence my training right now. Hanson lays a program that's pretty good even for base building it seems!

Watch the most recent interview on FloTrack with Jack Daniels in their Thursty Thursday series. He specifically addresses your idea of back-to-back moderate long runs and the potential benefits. He also addresses your question of how far you need to run for a marathon.

http://www.flotrack.org/video/499461-Thirsty-Thursday-Season-6-Finale-Long-Run-in-Marathon-Training

very interesting vid thanks!

I like his point about 2 hour runs. For me that would be an exact 15 miler, which would coincide with 25% of 60mpw when I get there!

For Team in Training peeps 2 hour would be 10 miles or 25% of 40 which also sounds ok

For elites 2 hour is 20 miles or 20-25% of 80-100mpw, probably a lot less stressful tho than for slower runners!

All in all I'll stick with the current rule of thumb which means that I won't seriously think about the marathon until I can hit 55-60mpw

Can I run 50 w/ some doubles or is it stupid? Getting to 50-60 with 2-3 doubles SOUNDS a lot easier than on singles!

Doubles are always better than singles.