50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

drug testing only work related , I remember a guy in my outfit wanted out so he spiked his urine;)

pre employment urine test in 87 for Texas Inst. defense contractor that is it

but hoping to get good enough to where they want a sample

Third week of base after my 7 month mid d campain feeling good.

daily slogs 50 minutes with a couple of faster slogs but still slogs

high lights

2x20 seconds downhill sprints

29:20 LT up Cape Herman Hill did this morning very happy with this effort.

My experience with KC was much like yours rdb.

I put in 8.3 hours of running this week (7 days 7 runs), with no workouts. Had a good run up Waterton Canyon yesterday (dirt road, no cars, SW of Denver) at a bit over an hour, and today did Magnolia Road (8200-8700') at sub 8 and felt pretty good. A bit dizzy at the start and then tired over the last mile, which is a mile long grind. Feels good just to be running.

Coyote Montane, wow, Magnolia Road, even I know that's a classic route.

Big Red, great story about passing the same cheater twice in a race in Oaxaca!

Lots of amazing training being done by you folks.

My own training fluctuates based on how I feel each day. That said, I had a good training week by my own standards.

Week of July 13-19, 2020

MONDAY - 2 miles walking.

TUESDAY - 0.5 mile warmup + 4 miles on the track in 36:00 (9:00/mile).

WEDNESDAY - 2 miles walking, Regular stretches (11 stretches), Back stretches (9 stretches), Upper Body strength (6 exercises, 1 set each), Lower Body strength (5 exercises, 2 sets each), Knee exercises (2).

THURSDAY - 1 mile walking, 5 miles running at the track, slow and untimed.

FRIDAY - 2 miles walking, Regular stretches (11 stretches), Back stretches (9 stretches), Upper Body strength (6 exercises, 1 set each), Lower Body strength (5 exercises, 3 sets each), Knee strength (2 exercises).

SATURDAY - 4 miles running at the track, slow and untimed.

SUNDAY - 2 miles walking, Regular stretches (11 stretches), Back stretches (9 stretches), Upper Body strength (6 exercises, 1 set each), Lower Body strength (5 exercises, 3 sets each), Knee strength (2 exercises).

Totals:

13.5 miles running, 9 miles walking, stretching, strengthening.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Had a good run up Waterton Canyon yesterday (dirt road, no cars, SW of Denver) at a bit over an hour, and today did Magnolia Road (8200-8700') at sub 8 and felt pretty good. A bit dizzy at the start and then tired over the last mile, which is a mile long grind. Feels good just to be running.

I live at 170 feet and do almost all of my hiking/backpacking at 7000-9000 feet. I am never aware of the elevation when hiking, but even going up the side of a steep mountain with a backpack I think I'm just not working very hard. Also I have no idea what it feels like to go up an equivalent mountainside at a much lower elevation. In contrast, whenever I've gone running in Santa Fe or Los Alamos (over 7000 feet) I feel OK when running easy on the flat, but let me try to pick up the pace or go even a bit uphill and I'm gasping for breath!

This was a travel week for me. We drove home fro Chicago Tuesday and I'm still adjusting to the humidity. I don't tolerate the heat and humidity as well as I used to and I don't have any pep so I'm ignoring my watch and running by feel.

Sun 6.6 E, yoga

Mon 7.2 E, 21 bike

Tue Off

Wed 6.3 E - skipped planned track workout

Thu 21 bike, 1700yd swim

Fri 7.0 E, 1650yd swim

Sat 6.0 E, 38 bike, 2200 yd swim

Like many of you, I was saddened but not surprised by the Kevin Castille news. I remember 2017 outdoor nationals at LSU where he was leading the 10,000 by a ton and walked off the track with less than 400 to go. I also thought it was curious when he split 13:52 at Peachtree and finished as 10th master in 36:40. It sure appeared to me that he was avoiding situations where he would be tested. Like some of you, I've run Dedham where he was caught. As a smaller local race, the odds of being tested are low even though it's a national championship so I bet he thought he'd be OK.

I agree with Charlie that he should be stripped of all of his titles, not just Dedham and the ones after his positive test, and he should be banned for life. I feel bad for the honest guys he cheated out of the places they deserved. There just is no room in our sport for cheating.

Long May You Run!

M60, 5'11", 182 lbs

Sun -- Off

Mon -- Off

Tues -- 6.0 miles (splits 9:54, 9:28, 9:08, 9:21, 9:09, 8:28)

Wed -- Off

Thu -- 4.0 miles (splits 10:08, 9:02, 8:32, 8:06)

Fri -- Off

Sat -- 4.0 miles (splits 9:50, 9:36, 9:00, 8:37)

TOTAL 14.0 MILES

That second mile of last night's run included a hard fall while running downhill. Before my recent break, I was falling frequently, sometimes multiple times during a single run. I need to concentrate on getting my feet off the ground -- knee lift, higher back-kick. The "old man shuffle" may kill me otherwise. My head smacked the pavement with some force yesterday.

Tuesday's "long run" was probably my longest since last September. Knee pain interrupted my sleep this week, so maybe 4 miles should be my max.

No progress on my weight-loss goal. My diet was good, except for the quantity of beer.

Have a safe, productive and enjoyable week.

allen1959,

On the fall, also make sure you are using your full foot on plant. Think of that, along with “active plant.” That will alone get your knee higher with less effort.

Igy

Allen1959 wrote:

M60, 5'11", 182 lbs

Sun -- Off

Mon -- Off

Tues -- 6.0 miles (splits 9:54, 9:28, 9:08, 9:21, 9:09, 8:28)

Wed -- Off

Thu -- 4.0 miles (splits 10:08, 9:02, 8:32, 8:06)

Fri -- Off

Sat -- 4.0 miles (splits 9:50, 9:36, 9:00, 8:37)

TOTAL 14.0 MILES

That second mile of last night's run included a hard fall while running downhill. Before my recent break, I was falling frequently, sometimes multiple times during a single run. I need to concentrate on getting my feet off the ground -- knee lift, higher back-kick. The "old man shuffle" may kill me otherwise. My head smacked the pavement with some force yesterday.

Tuesday's "long run" was probably my longest since last September. Knee pain interrupted my sleep this week, so maybe 4 miles should be my max.

No progress on my weight-loss goal. My diet was good, except for the quantity of beer.

Have a safe, productive and enjoyable week.

Allen, ouch! Watch your head! I was was run down in a crosswalk five years ago and got a fractured skull, lost hearing in one ear, also now have hand tremors and migraines and other issues. Hitting your head is nothing to mess around with, so take care of yourself!

Here's a weight-loss tip that has worked for me: when I have a craving to eat, and it isn't part of my diet, sometimes I'll drink a big glass of water (to fill myself up with something) and go for a walk (to remove myself from the food; also I end up burning calories rather than consuming them). I did that a lot early in my diet. Now I am pretty good at following my plan so I have fewer issues. Although I did complain to my wife tonight, when I saw her eating some chips: "How come you get to eat salty chips, and I don't?" Which was totally unfair of me to say, because it's my choice, as we both know. Pure petulance on my part, that's all.

P.S. Allen, I have constant knee pain too, but I am able to run a little, thanks to orthotics in my shoes. I use Alines. I forget if you mentioned trying that yet. It really seems to help me, and keep me in the game (sort of).

A PT set up the Alines for me. The Alines have little optional plastic tabs that can tilt the angle of the insert in your shoe; in my case, the goal was to reduce pronation.

Allen, I feel your pain. I love trail running, but also have an efficient distance runner’s gait keeping my feet low to the ground. The result has been a fair number of falls over the years thanks to tripping on roots and rocks. Often these happened in company much to the delight of my running companions. My solution was to avoid the trails in favor of flat paved surfaces. The frequency of my falls has been greatly reduced!

Regarding the weight loss, I’ve tried a lot of things. I’m sorry to report that the most effective has been reducing my daily volume of beer. I haven’t given it up completely mind you, but I have reduced the daily volume by one-third or more. I imbibe high quality craft beer, so I’ve slowed down my consumption rate to make each beer last longer. It has made a difference. Cheers.

P.P.S. Years ago I went to a sports doctor in Brookline, MA who had photos all around his office of famous sports stars he had worked with. I paid him hundreds of dollars for custom orthotics to put in my shoes. They were so painful I ended up throwing them away. I guess I could have gone back to him to see if they could be adjusted, but I didn't like him--he seemed kind of arrogant, and I just didn't want to deal with him anymore. Besides I didn't think he would give me any real attention or take my concerns seriously, since I wasn't a famous athlete.

I think it's tough for regular people like you and me to get serious attention from health professionals for their running aches and pains. Basically nobody cares. "If it hurts, don't do it," is what I heard from doctors for many years. I think that's changing, but it still seems hard to get effective help. Just my experience; I hope other people are having more luck.

I would love to go someplace really top-notch and get my gait analyzed and get orthotics that really worked, and that's just for starters. I have other pains beside right knee pain, especially my right hip and right hamstrings. As you can see in my case, basically the right leg is junk.

I was told years ago by a knowledgeable PT that my Q-angle is too big on both legs, and especially the right leg. That means the knee is stressed badly with every footstrike. Basically the upper leg is trying to break off my lower leg at the knee when I footstrike, and my knee gets forced inward toward the other leg. The PT said, "Normally women have a larger Q-angle than men, but you have a bigger Q-angle than most women." Great.

Coyote Montane, great hill run, I would be sitting with my head between my knees! Ha ha, I've done the research, and found myself in that exact position! Fortunately, my running mate that day revived me with a few glugs of coca-cola!

amk, your hill story begs the question, how are you on a marathon course with hills? I am sure you've faced this situation, and I bet you did fine.

When I lived in Oaxaca (2007 -2016), I started my runs in town at 5000 feet and often crested ridges north of town over 6000 feet. After a few months, you almost get used to it... while it's not quite as challenging as Mammoth Peaks or some Colorado or Utah training areas, it does have it's pleasures!

Here is a blog post about running the "Meatgrinder" hill in Oaxaca (in Spanish, the "Carniveros").

http://thegrumpyrunner.blogspot.com/2013/11/welcome-to-meatgrinder.html

Igy -- Can you further explain the full foot plant? I try to land mid-foot, although I see the heels of my shoes (toward the outside) are wearing like they did when I was definitely a heel-striker.

old guy -- To be honest, my "greater than usual" beer quantity was still only four bottles for the entire week (my normal intake is two). Only quality local craft beer in our fridge, but on a sweltering day, the first half-glass goes down pretty quickly!

I generally run on the soft road shoulders where even a small stone, ridge or rut can send me flying toward a face plant. Yesterday I was actually on the pavement, but new water lines had just gone in, so probably a stray stone I didn't spot.

Brittle -- My knee issues are patellar bone spurs where the quadriceps tendon attaches, plus calcification of the tendon and tendonitis. The bone spurs are like sharp horns that constantly irritate the tendon. My understanding is, to remove them, the tendon would need to be severed, then mechanically reattached.

Definitely scary about your head injury. Yes, ANY head trauma should be taken seriously. If you're still playing chess competitely, I guess your brain still works. Chess was my "winter sport" in high school. In the mid-70s there was an interscholastic chess "league" in Rochester and the suburbs. "Away" matches and "home" matches, like dual meets in track. Usually five boards, with Board One scoring five points, Board Two four points, etc.

“Igy -- Can you further explain the full foot plant? I try to land mid-foot, although I see the heels of my shoes (toward the outside) are wearing like they did when I was definitely a heel-striker. “

Allen1959,

I believe you need to approach more from feel than analytical. Feel using more of your foot, with “active” plant. My assumption is you may be “in the bucket.” Hip angle tilted forward, so you get a weak foot plant, and little extension with the hamstring. Since biomechanics are a chain of actions and reactions, it starts with the foot plant, then extension with hamstring, level hips, run tall, head/chin up, arms up, flex at elbow.....

Igy

Regarding falling while running:

I have always had the worst sense of balance of any not obviously handicapped human being. When I started seriously running in my 30s I used to try to run trails but I fell so often I finally gave it up. I still love the idea of trail running and I really wish I could. When I started going backpacking with my husband-to-be at age 39, my lack of balance quickly became a standing joke. I could march up and down steep grades with him all day but I would usually fall at least once per day and I was absolutely incapable of balancing on a fallen tree to get across a stream. I love hiking and backpacking but I have to plan stream crossings carefully and I have to pay a great deal of attention to where I'm putting my feet to avoid stumbling and falling.

Four years ago I went to an orthopedist about my Achilles tendon. He was less interested in my Achilles than in the fact that I could not balance on one leg reliably or do the "sobriety test" tightrope walk on the ground. He told me I should be using a cane to avoid falling and breaking something. I laughed and told him it would be hard to carry a cane while running a marathon. As long as I avoid uneven surfaces, I don't fall. I have never fallen during a race, and I haven't fallen in more than seven years, since I moved to an area that has street lights almost everywhere and mostly good pavement. Before that, on dark streets with rough unpaved shoulders in the pre-dawn hours, I used to crash once or twice a year.

I have good balance for my vintage. On stream crossings, confidence is an important component. When in doubt I just get wet boots. They dry out after a couple of miles. I do use a hiking pole.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

“A friend invited me to join a HM in early October.

Dear coaches out there, what would you change in my schedule?“

Newbi,

I would add some Tempo-Long-Tempo runs (Daniels’ Term). Something like this: 3 x mile tempo pace / 1:00 rest + 7 miles easy + 3 x mile tempo pace / 1:00 rest.

Igy

Hi Igy,

Thanks for advice!

For proper understanding, you mean (1)?

3 x 1 mile tempo pace with 1 min rest after each mile, 7 miles easy....

Or you mean (2)?

3 miles tempo, 1 min rest, 7 miles easy ....

On which day in a weekly structure would you do this?

Best regards from Germany

Newbi,

This: “For proper understanding, you mean (1)?

3 x 1 mile tempo pace with 1 min rest after each mile, 7 miles easy....“

You can also do it the other way for more difficulty, but I would suggest the above.

Igy

Thanks for clarification. Despite (1) is easier than (2), it is tough stuff for a forest jogger and track softie. Will think about it this week.

All the best to Idaho