Whoops! George Hincapie gives up Lance

oh please wrote:

Lance has denied way too long and vehemently to ever admit to doping, especially with the absence of a recent positive test. (I am aware of the positive '99 samples that were retro tested).

Lance's twitter, yesterday:

"20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case."

But, Hincapie never tested positive either, and he's admitting it. Lance and Hincapie were very likely using the same stuff.

firefly wrote:

"I can confirm to you I never spoke with "60 Minutes." I have no idea where they got their information."

Hincapie's twitter

He also said "As for the substance of anything in the "60 Minutes" story, I cannot comment on anything relating to the ongoing investigation"

So he's basically saying that he didn't speak to 60 minutes, but he's not denying saying that Lance is a cheat.

I may be misinterpreting you here, but does it not follow that if all of Armstrong's former teammates were liars and thieves that he probably was too? I mean even without Hincapie's input? I see the emotional tie to Armstrong, he was a great champion, one of the greatest of all time but damn people can be stubborn and dense. I find it fascinating that a board of competitive runners no less, can look on at the sport of cycling which is systematically dirty through to the coaches, medics, team bus drivers, etc. and reason that the best guy was somehow clean.

firefly wrote:

wow. hincapie is the only one of lance's former teammates i would actually believe

chinoix wrote:

I find it fascinating that a board of competitive runners no less, can look on at the sport of cycling which is systematically dirty through to the coaches, medics, team bus drivers, etc. and reason that the best guy was somehow clean.

I think everyone's forgotten about Kobe being a rapist.

Hero worship.

firefly wrote:

"I can confirm to you I never spoke with "60 Minutes." I have no idea where they got their information."

Hincapie's twitter

That's because it was leaked testimony. Hincapie is just stating that he has no idea how 60 minutes got their hands on it.

He is in no way denying the actual testimony, just covering his ass since he is not supposed to be discussing the case outside of arbitration. At least that is my guess.

chinoix wrote:

I may be misinterpreting you here, but does it not follow that if all of Armstrong's former teammates were liars and thieves that he probably was too? I mean even without Hincapie's input? I see the emotional tie to Armstrong, he was a great champion, one of the greatest of all time but damn people can be stubborn and dense. I find it fascinating that a board of competitive runners no less, can look on at the sport of cycling which is systematically dirty through to the coaches, medics, team bus drivers, etc. and reason that the best guy was somehow clean.

firefly wrote:

wow. hincapie is the only one of lance's former teammates i would actually believe

not really. just because lances teammates may or may not be great people does not mean lance is a doper. hincapie is still an active professional who never tested positive. for him to say this is much more believable than the landis or hamilton accusations.

was lance dirty? yeah he probably was. am i sure? no and i have to reason to be 100% sure. believe me, i know cycling in and out. i know all the circumstantial evidence aimed at lance. ive studied the numbers (times, watts, mph). and they all point to a machine of a rider. but here is george hincapie possibly making these allegations. this is and has been lances boy for over a decade. in my book thats the closest thing to a true positive test as there has been so far

It seems extremely unlikely that someone who helped him win all those tours would accuse someone who was actually clean of doping. So, Lance was most likely doped.

That said, he's still one of my biggest heroes and a real inspiration. All of those tour wins were still basically a level playing field...

Lance makes being an endurance athlete cool, sexy, mainstream, and acceptable. He has brought a lot of positive press to endurance sports. The mainstream still views the doping accusations against him as unfounded and unreliable, even though they're really not. Lance makes me sure that it is possible to be an endurance athlete and also extremely sexy/cool. Every american knows who lance armsrong is and thinks he's a bad ass.

The timing of this is suspect. Did anyone see the 60 Minutes episode a ~couple years ago with Lance where the reporter said something to the effect "lately, many people before you have looked into the camera and lied about PED usage, what makes you think we believe you..." It seems like the establishment/culture has given him ample opportunity to come clean on this and because he didn't they are going to absolutely crush/expose him.

There isn't a prayer that Armstrong ever admits to doping assuming he did.

He'll keep rolling out all the test results and deny deny.

Runner who's a Lance Fan wrote:

It seems extremely unlikely that someone who helped him win all those tours would accuse someone who was actually clean of doping. So, Lance was most likely doped.

That said, he's still one of my biggest heroes and a real inspiration. All of those tour wins were still basically a level playing field...

Lance makes being an endurance athlete cool, sexy, mainstream, and acceptable. He has brought a lot of positive press to endurance sports. The mainstream still views the doping accusations against him as unfounded and unreliable, even though they're really not. Lance makes me sure that it is possible to be an endurance athlete and also extremely sexy/cool. Every american knows who lance armsrong is and thinks he's a bad ass.

I think this raises the bigger question: was it a level playing field? Is anyone in cycling clean?

If Armstrong just had the best doping doctor, then who knows how good he really was. We'll probably never know.

If he still intends on doing an ironman, I don't know how he'll move a muscle without having someone spying on him. If he thinks he was scrutinized before, he hasn't seen anything yet.

Off the Grid wrote:

I wonder who will be first to give up Solinsky

There will never be a federal trial regarding the case, so never. But for anyone who considers this the nail in the coffin regarding Lance's suspected drug use, it proves that America's athletes are fully capable of using endurance enhancing drugs and not getting caught regardless of how many times they are tested. Perhaps beter at evasion than any other nation.

Of course U.S. endurance athletes have SOOOO much better ability to evade detection compared to say, Marion Jones or Justin Gatlin. They are in with the Illuminati and Central Banking Committee and were in on the destruction of the Twin Towers.

Ponder This wrote:

Off the Grid wrote:

I wonder who will be first to give up Solinsky

There will never be a federal trial regarding the case, so never. But for anyone who considers this the nail in the coffin regarding Lance's suspected drug use, it proves that America's athletes are fully capable of using endurance enhancing drugs and not getting caught regardless of how many times they are tested. Perhaps beter at evasion than any other nation.

Limpy McGimpy wrote:

Of course U.S. endurance athletes have SOOOO much better ability to evade detection compared to say, Marion Jones or Justin Gatlin. They are in with the Illuminati and Central Banking Committee and were in on the destruction of the Twin Towers.

I thought the greater difficulty of detecting EPO use over that of detecting steroid use was well established. If you don,t agree with that premise, then arguing with you would be as futile as arguing with someone who believes that Lance is innocent intil he fails a drug test.

bladerunner wrote:

common letsrun sense wrote:

Is it inadmissible if he was waterboarded?

My guess is they made him drink one of those Michelob ultras.

Thanks ! I needed that laugh.

It has been a long time since Armstrong stated definitively "I have never taken performance enhancing drugs".

He now just now just repeats the mantra "I have never failed a test".

This in itself seems a little wierd if he were clean.

I was more interested in Andreu's comments at the end of this piece. Perhaps he was just rationalizing the use of EPO by himself and his teammates. However I don't think it is going out on a limb to suppose that a VAST majority of TDF participants in recent years have used PEDS.

While it does not exonerate the cheaters, I think this point matters because it puts athletes in the position of having to cheat if they want to have any chance of success. I would rather the PEDs be legalized. Athletes could still choose to compete clean, and sport would not be a charade.

It bothers me that I really have no idea what percentage of professional middle and long distance runners use PEDs.

logician wrote:

I was more interested in Andreu's comments at the end of this piece. Perhaps he was just rationalizing the use of EPO by himself and his teammates. However I don't think it is going out on a limb to suppose that a VAST majority of TDF participants in recent years have used PEDS.

While it does not exonerate the cheaters, I think this point matters because it puts athletes in the position of having to cheat if they want to have any chance of success. I would rather the PEDs be legalized. Athletes could still choose to compete clean, and sport would not be a charade.

It bothers me that I really have no idea what percentage of professional middle and long distance runners use PEDs.

A big reason why PEDs are not legal is because if used wrongly, they're often dangerous.

Do you think it would be wise to have high school teams with EPO/Blood transfusion regimes in order to win state meets and the like?

The issue with Lance is less because he cheated, but more because he's spent years playing the "All American hero who beat all the freedom hating evil dirty Europeans whilst being clean as the driven snow" card. He deserves to have the book thrown at him.

Oh, and it's funny to see his fanboys cry.

How many former team mates is that now, to have given evidence or testified against Lance?

Tyler Hamilton

Floyd Landis

Frankie Andreu

George Hincapie

Steve Swart

Did I miss anyone?

bladerunner wrote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6571826

i realize everyone is focusing on hincapie's damning testimony of lance, but my question is: hincapie is still riding! why? after yesterday, if I were UCI boss, i'd be demanding a 2 year suspension and immediate investigation into hincapie's past palmares.