2 long runs + 2 workouts a week

New Start Thread

SummerIs Here

8 years ago 05/10/2011 11:53am CDT

Back To IndexForum Index

Do you think this is to much for a 10k-marathoner

Sunday = Easy Double
Monday = 90 – 120 minutes -LR
Tuesday = Easy Double + Short hill sprints/Strides
Wednesday = Easy AM run + PM Fartlek / Hill repeats alternating
Thursday = 90 – 120 minutes - LR
Friday = Easy double + Short hill sprints/Strides
Saturday = Easy AM run + PM Tempo

Input please
weesd

8 years ago 05/10/2011 11:56am CDT
re: SummerIs Here

Back To IndexForum Index

2 hours isn't a long enough run for a 10k runner.
SummerIs Here

8 years ago 05/10/2011 12:09pm CDT
re: weesd

Back To IndexForum Index

how long would you prescribe then?
Navy Seal Warrior

8 years ago 05/10/2011 12:31pm CDT
re: weesd

Back To IndexForum Index

weesd wrote:

2 hours isn't a long enough run for a 10k runner.

Tell that Frank Shorter. He was 5th in the Olympic 10k and 1st in the marathon and his long runs where only 2 hours.
runfastpleasenowsir

8 years ago 05/11/2011 2:14pm CDT
re: SummerIs Here

Back To IndexForum Index

An elite runner can cover 18 to 19 miles in 2 hours so I would say that 2 hours is definetly enough for a 10k.

Two longer runs and two workouts is perfect! I would suggest one long run of 2 or more hours and another medium long run of 90 to 105 minutes. Although I would treat the longer long run as workout, having an easy day before and after.

Also, two workouts is great, however, the type of workout you do will depend on what specific race you are training for. The workouts for a marathon are very different than a 10k. For example, I would do lots of steady state runs if I am training for a marathon as opposed to 5k-10k pace intervals if I was training for a 10k.

Here is a sample week for 10k-half marathon training

Mon: easy
Tue: Tempo Workout (tempo run or intervals)
Wed: Medium long run 12-14 miles
Thu: easy
Fri: Workout (5-10k pace intervals)
Sat: easy
Sun: Long run 15-18 miles (moderate pace with hill sprints at the end)

Here is a sample week for marathon training

Mon: easy
Tue: Steady State Run (basically a marathon pace run)
Wed: Medium long run 14-16 miles
Thu: easy
Fri: Tempo Workout (tempo run or intervals)
Sat: easy
Sun: Long run 16-22 miles (either all at a moderate pace or add some steady state running at the end a few times a month to mimic what a marathon feels like. If the later go at least two easy days afterwards. Build up )
SummerIs Here

8 years ago 05/11/2011 3:48pm CDT
re: runfastpleasenowsir

Back To IndexForum Index

Mon: easy
Tue: Tempo Workout (tempo run or intervals)
Wed: Medium long run 12-14 miles
Thu: easy
Fri: Workout (5-10k pace intervals)
Sat: easy
Sun: Long run 15-18 miles (moderate pace with hill sprints at the end)

Thanks I like that schedule a lot.
It is interesting that you place hill sprints at the end could you elaborate why they are after the long run?
I read the Hudsons recommend short hill bursts the day before a workout, are your hill sprints the same type of idea?

runfastpleasenowsir

8 years ago 05/11/2011 4:21pm CDT
re: SummerIs Here

Back To IndexForum Index

Now know that hill sprints are only 10-12 seconds long and their purpose is to work on running economy/form. They are not a workout in themselves. They are more like strides.

So yes, it is the same type of idea. I like to do them at the end of a long run because it gives you some faster leg work in the middle of a lot of slower running.

Although you could do them whenever you like because they are not too taxing. In general I like to do at least 3 days a week where I either do strides or hill sprints in order to work on leg turnover.

Now know that hill sprints are only 10-12 seconds long and their purpose is to work on running economy/form. They are not a workout in themselves like strides.
runfastpleasenowsir

8 years ago 05/11/2011 4:23pm CDT
re: runfastpleasenowsir

Back To IndexForum Index

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Forgot to delete bottom paragraph :(
malmo

registered

8 years ago 05/11/2011 4:46pm CDT
re: weesd

Back To IndexForum Index

weesd wrote:

2 hours isn't a long enough run for a 10k runner.

Alberto Salazar
10 weeks, average daily mileage is 14.2 miles. Average long run is 13.0 miles. Longest run is 15 miles.

Todd Williams
10 weeks, average daily mileage is 14.2 miles. Average long run is 10.2 miles. Longest run is 12 miles.

Summary from Alberto Salazars training log in 1977

70 days, 130 sessions
60 doubles
10 singles
21.5% = percentage of individual runs 10 miles or longer (28 out of 130 efforts averaging 11.85 miles, range 10-15 miles)

14.2 miles = avg daily mileage
2.7 miles = stdev
15 miles = mode (28x), 14(11x), 16(7x), 13(5x), 12(5x), 18(4x)

69 = number of AM runs (including Sunday long run)
7.1 miles = avg AM run
6.2 miles = avg AM run (not including long run)
61 = number of PM runs
8.3 miles = avg PM run

9 long runs (13,11,13,14,14,13,15,12,12)
13.0 miles = avg long run
15 miles = longest run. One occurrence.
Long runs = 91% of the avg daily mileage
Long runs = 13.1% of the avg weekly mileage

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2472389&page=2

1977 Cross Country season

Sept 5-11 105 miles
9/5 M - AM 7 miles PM 7 miles
9/6 T - AM 11 miles PM 3 miles
9/7 W - AM 7.5 miles PM 11.5 miles
9/8 T - AM 5 miles PM 8 miles
9/9 F - AM 6 miles PM 9 miles
9/10 S - AM 3.5 warm-up, 6x 1 mile (5:12 to 4:44) w/400 jog PM 4 miles
9/11 S - AM 4 miles PM 11 miles

Sept 12-18 108 miles
9/12 M - AM 6 miles PM 12 miles
9/13 T - AM 6 miles PM 1 mile warmup, 6x 1 mile w 400 jog (5:30,5:00,5:04,4:50,5:05,4:50) , 3 miles easy
9/14 W - AM 6 miles PM 9 miles
9/15 T - AM 6 miles PM 2 mile warmup, 3 x 150 steep hill (60-70s), 6 miles
9/16 F - AM 6 miles PM 8 miles
9/17 S - AM 2.5 miles easy, 10.5 miles in 54:15 PM 5 miles easy
9/18 S - AM 13 miles

Sept 19-25 110 miles
9/19 M - AM 7.5 miles PM 8.5 miles
9/20 T - AM 6 miles PM 2 miles warmup, 6x 1 mile w/400 jog(4:54,4:46,4:46,4:42,4:32,4:18) 3.5 miles
9/21 W - AM 7.5 miles PM 7.5 miles
9/22 T - AM 7.5 miles PM 2 miles 3 sets 3x300 hill (E-M-H), 3.5 miles
9/23 F - AM 7.5 miles PM 7.5 miles
9/24 S - AM 2 mile warmup, 30th Avenue Drill: ¾ mile in 3:15, 2nd ¾ mile in 3:20, last one 3:20, 14 miles total
9/25 S - AM 11 miles easy PM 2 miles with stairs

Sept 26-Oct 2 98 miles
9/26 M - AM 7 miles PM 7 miles, 6x 30/30 (28/32)
9/27 T - AM 7 miles PM 4 x ¾ mile (3:30), 3 x 1 mile(5:10,4:54,4:32) w/ 400 jog, 3 miles warmdown
9/28 W - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
9/29 T - AM 7 miles PM 2 miles, 9x hill on golf course, 3 miles
9/30 F - AM 5 miles PM 4 miles
10/1 S - AM 2.5 miles 11:30 meet 2 miles, 10000 CX in 29:22 (1st, Virgin 2nd) 3 mile warmdown
10/2 S - AM 13 miles

Oct 3 - Oct 9 109 miles
10/3 M - AM 7 miles PM 7 miles, 6 x 30/30
10/4 T - AM 7 miles PM 1 mile warmup, 11 miles @ 5:11, 1 mile cooldown
10/5 W - AM 7 miles PM 7 miles, 6 x 30/30
10/6 T - AM 7 miles PM 1.5 miles, 9 x hill (E,M,H), 3.5 miles
10/7 F - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/8 S - 6am 2.5 miles, 10am 1.5 easy, 6x1 mile (5:12,5:07,4:54,4:48,4:44,4:31) 400 jog, 3 miles easy
10/9 S - AM 14 miles (around the Butte)

Oct 10 - Oct 16 106 miles
10/10 M - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/11 T - AM 7 miles PM 1.5 miles, ¾ mile (3:09), 1.5 miles, 5 x 880/330 (2:26,2:19,2:26,2:11,2:25/49-50), 1.5 miles easy
10/12 W - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/13 T - AM 7 miles PM 2 miles, 9x 300 hill (E, M, H), 3.5 miles
10/14 F - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/15 S - 6am 3 miles, 10am 30th Ave Drill: ¾ mile (3:12), 4 miles (@5:17), ¾ mile (3:12), 4 miles, ¾ mile (3:15), 1 mile cooldown
10/16 S - AM 14 miles

Oct 17 - Oct 23 88 miles
10/17 M - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/18 T - AM 7 miles 1.5 mile warmup, PM 4 x 330 uphill, 4 x 330 downhill, 3 mile cooldown
10/19 W - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/20 T - AM 5 miles PM 3 mile warmup, 1 mile (4:13), 1 mile easy, 4x880/330 (2:26,2:22,2:16,2:16/50-48) 2 miles.
10/21 F - AM 6 miles, sore tendon
10/22 S - AM 4 miles PM 6 miles still painful, but better
10/23 S - AM 13 miles

Oct 24 - Oct 30 100 miles
10/24 M - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/25 T - AM 5 miles PM 3 mile warmup, 3x ¾ mile(3:29,3:23,3:17), 2x880/330 (2:32,50,2:22,51) 1 mile cooldown
10/26 W - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
10/27 T - AM 7 miles PM 5 miles and strides
10/28 F - AM 5 miles PM 5 miles
10/29 S - 6am 3 miles 11am 2 miles , 10,000 race (3rd), 2 miles PM 5.5 easy
10/30 S - AM 15 miles (note: had Alberto run his usual 13-14 miles he wouldn’t have made 100, LOL!)

Oct 31 - Novt 6 98 miles
10/31 M - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles, 6x30/30, 1 mile cooldown
11/1 T - AM 7 miles PM 3 miles, 5x330 uphill and downhill, 3 mile cooldown
11/2 W - AM 7 miles PM 8 miles
11/3 T - AM 7 miles PM 3 miles, 4x ¾ mile (3:24, 3:22, 3:19, 3:18), w/ 400 jog, 2x880/330
11/4 F - AM 4 miles PM rest
11/5 S - 6am 3 miles 11am 3 miles, 1 mile (4:14) cont. 5:12, 3 miles at 5:12, 3x330 (51,49,45)
11/6 S - AM 12 miles

Nov 7 - Nov 13 86 miles
11/7 M - AM 7 miles PM 7 miles, 8x330, 1 mile cooldown
11/8 T - AM 7 miles PM 3 miles, 3x ¾ mile (3:27, 3:22, 3:18) with 400 jog, 3x880/330(2:32,51,2:20,47,2:16,47)
11/9 W - AM 5 miles PM 5 miles
11/10 T - AM 5 miles PM 2 miles, 3x330 (42,49,51), 3 miles, 3x330(51,49,45), 1 mile cooldown
11/11 F - AM 3 miles PM 4 miles
11/12 S - AM 2 miles, 10,000 Xc 29:47 (3rd), 2 miles cooldown
11/13 S - AM 12 miles

Nov 14 - Nov 20 67 miles
11/14 M - AM 5 miles PM 5 miles, 6x30/30
11/15 T - AM 5 miles PM 4 miles
11/16 W - AM 5 miles PM 2 miles, 3x ¾ mile (3:30, 3:22, 3:18), 2x 880/330 (2:30,51,2:22,48) 2 miles
11/17 T - AM 5.5 miles PM 6.5 miles
11/18 F - AM 5 miles PM 2 miles, 9x330 (52,52,51,49,48,47,48,49,46), 1 mile
11/19 S - AM 3 miles PM 4 miles
11/20 S - AM 4 miles

Nov 21 - Nov 27 44 miles
11/21 M - AM 2 miles 11am NCAA CX (9th), Team beat UTEP 100-105.
11/22 T - 5 miles
11/23 W - 5 miles
11/24 T - 4 miles
11/25 F - 5 miles
11/26 S - 7am 3 miles Noon AAU 10000m XC (10th)
11/27S - 4 miles

FROM THE TODD WILLIAMS TRAINING THREAD

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2277974

Weekly mileage for the 10 weeks leading up to 1995 Gate River Run: 110-102-91-86-93-105-105-95-103-106* race week

Long runs for the 10 weeks leading up to 1995 Gate River Run: 12-8-10-10-8-11-12-10-11-10

Specific workouts: Each week I would do a track workout, hill workout and a faster road run, with some samples of those below. For each workout I ran a 3-4 mile warm-up at a sub 6:00 pace, followed by 6-150m strides and a 2 mile warm-down.

Key workouts:
1. [email protected]:15 with 3 minutes recovery jogs between each mile
2. Hills – 10x380 meter hill with jog back down for recovery between each
3. 8 x 1000m @2:45 with 200m jog recovery between each 1000m
4. 1600m – [email protected]:60-:61 pace with 400m jog recovery between each
5. 5 miles HARD road run (4:45 pace) then back to the track for 4 x 800m @2:02 – 2:04 with 400m jog recovery
6. 20 x 200m @ :30 with 200m jog recovery
7. 6 mile HARD road run then back to the track for a 4:08 mile
I ran twice a day every day, with my pace on each run never slower than 6 minutes per mile. At the completion of each afternoon run I would do 8 x 150m strides at mile race pace.
hillerrun

8 years ago 05/12/2011 1:39am CDT
re: malmo

Back To IndexForum Index

Hey malmo,
I'm guessing through all of that you mean that long runs are not the up most importance.
on a side note
I'm wanting to begin summer of malmo in a week when I leave school, but I live in a remote location with no track.
Would fartleks work instead? Also its not exactly what you prescribed but I like your half - marathon workouts of Hills and Fartleks 5 hard / 5 easy. could these replace the intervals?

thanks
wuzthere

8 years ago 05/12/2011 7:53am CDT
re: SummerIs Here

Back To IndexForum Index

You may need to actually take it easy on your easy day. Hill sprints and strides should be done on one of the other days. You can even do them on the long run days. Figure on having at least two easy days per week. Many people actually have three easy days per week. And if an athlete is older with longer recovery times, four easy days a week is probably a good reccomendation. High stakes is what racing is about, so one has to start getting used to that in training. Whe one decides to go hard in training, there should be no excuses or possible causes for excuses in the training program. By doing something agressive on an easy day, one is creating an excuse for things not going well on a hard day. Great training programs have peaks and valley. It is amazing to me how the very first lesson on coaching is easily forgotten. The first thing a coach is taught is the overload principle and training effect. The human body actually becomes stronger while one is resting not while one is running or lifting weights or doing drills or sprints. Efficiency and skill is learned while the activitity is taking place but the increase in physical strength or cardio-vascular ability occurs while one is resting.
Djehxjd

8 years ago 05/12/2011 11:50am CDT
re: SummerIs Here

Back To IndexForum Index

Bump

hillerrun

8 years ago 05/13/2011 3:03am CDT
re: Djehxjd

Back To IndexForum Index

un mas