Flanagan's 28 mile run

many on this thread seem to be operating under the assumption that Saturday was a maximal effort for Shalane (and this is perfectly reasonable because Shalane herself has said as much). I think though that it should be considered that Flanagan's post-race comments weren't entirely accurate, and as dominating as her performance was it may in fact not have been "all out" or even very close to it

this would obviously make a very long, hard effort two days later a bit more reasonable

Conto wrote:

btw, I'll call right now that Shalane gets down to low to mid 14:30s this summer and medals again in the Olympics in the 10k or marathon... all while picking up no less then 5 NEW AR (3K, 5K, 10K, 1/2, Marathon) and winning multiple National championships. If she does that, I would call her time with Jerry a massive success.

There is no reason Shalane can't do all of the above. She is incredibly talented and clearly incredibly driven/tough. Add to that the fact that she has one of the best coaches out there, and her potential is massive.

Women and men don't need to train that differently, and so Jerry doesn't really need to adjust Shalane's training much from what he has his guy's do. The thought that women need to do train differently is one (big) reason why no woman has replicated Paula's marathon feats.

Slow down there Conto.

It's completely fair to say that Flanagan has fallen off in 2009 & 2010 after her amazing 2007 & 2008. 2008 - Olympic bronze at 10k. 2009 - 2nd at USATF Nats & 14th at the World Championships in the 10k. (2010 - did not run, not sure if that really counts). And all her times the last two years are not as fast as they were at her "peak" in 07-08. The obvious change - leaving John Cook.

So yes, Captain Obvious, if she goes on to set 5 AR's and medals again in the Olympics, that would be outstanding and validate everything. But that's a pretty huge IF, dontcha think? You could apply that "if" to anyone. Let's see her do it first.

to run a 28 miler at all (for her, given her mileage history), let alone two days after hammering the field at XC nationals is highly unwise, and this comes from someone always wanting to push the envelope but wise enough to hold back in the days following really solid workouts or races. I really hope that she doesn't turn up lame with a stress fracture or anemia or the like in the coming weeks.

Shalane is a beast, she doesn't come up lame like other pussies. She hammers her workouts and comes out stronger. She knows a hell of a lot more than you armchair quarterbacks. Plus, she could drink you under the table after her 28 miler.

And Steve is a f***ing stud. He has a UNC degree, which is a hell of a lot more than you morons have.

In all seriousness, Steve is a very intelligent guy who is a massive godsend to Shalane.

agreed that real marathoners don't need to post that they ran 28 miles.

I think it's a dumb move and I too hope she doesn't end up injured... running that long when she's primarily training for a 10K is ridiculous. She hasn't improved at all yet under Jerry and I don't know that she will. I just don't understand a 28 mile long run. No reason to go that long.

my daily record is 24 Carlsbergs (a reasonably strong beer), and I was under control the whole day, so I'm thinking that she ain't going to be drinking me under the table.

Whatever you say, it was stupid to go 28 right after. That's what Alan Greenspan would call irrational exuberance. This is someone who said she'd never run more than (some arbitrarily low figure) in her life just a year or so ago. I cannot understand the purpose of that.

Perhaps the 28 miler is part of training plan for a spring marathon rather than 10k? 28 miles seems a bit, if your getting in mileage for track at this juncture, but perhaps a high mileage point before a marathon...could there be a suprise announcement coming soon?

spring marathon $$$ wrote:

Perhaps the 28 miler is part of training plan for a spring marathon rather than 10k? 28 miles seems a bit, if your getting in mileage for track at this juncture, but perhaps a high mileage point before a marathon...could there be a suprise announcement coming soon?

BOSTONSTONSTOSNTBSOTNSTBSOTNON!

That was going to be my question - what is the purpose of this 28 mile run?

How does it contribute towards her goals for the 2011 season?

More to the point, for a 5k/10k runner, what specific needs does a 28 mile run achieve that a 20 mile run wouldn't?

Did Jerry suggest that run? or is she back to doing her own thing? Did Lisa Koll run it as well? They claim to be "training partners".

Flanagan was crazy to leave Cook. In almost no time, he had her running 8:33 indoors, right on Oly champ Defar's heels. I'd wager she can't run close to that now, 4 years later.

She'll be lucky if she ever gets back to that kind of form, let alone improve on it.

Jerry's style is to give his atheletes absurd strength through the long-term, cumulative effects of marathon/base training. Solinsky said he was doing mostly high volume "marathon" training with training partners bairu and nelson all last fall/winter, before shocking himself and everyone else in the 10k in the late spring (and running some damn good 5k's as well).

I think Shalane will run very, very fast this summer in both the 5k and the 10k because of this very mindset

Brooks screwed themselves wrote:

Did Jerry suggest that run? or is she back to doing her own thing? Did Lisa Koll run it as well? They claim to be "training partners".

Jerry is shalane's coach, and he decides her training.

koll did not recently train for a marathon however shalane said koll handled the long training runs better than she did. koll looked uncomfortable on the usaxc course. She is a rhythm runner that does better on the track.

Her website says she ran 28 in 3:04. I was assuming she tooka break during the run to refuel and do some recovery but I guess not. She must be getting ready for a spring marathon. This makes no sense if she wants to go after the track records this year.

Any of you fools that think she can't DESTROY 14:44 this year need to have a word with Molly Huddle.

I think that Cook is an excellent coach but Jerry is a notch above, especially for Shalane.

Solinsky and Nelson had plenty of muscle mass to donate to the breakdown that these long runs cause. In fact, losing some of it probably helped them. Shalane doesn't. A couple more mistakes like this and you can kiss the 5k record goodbye. I can't believe they would be this foolish so she must be going for a marathon.

Well, there's several angles that they could be looking at it in doing a spring marathon, and assuming that Boston would be the likely choice.

If Shalane recovered really well from a slow, tactical New York race, perhaps they're gambling on a slow, tactical Boston in hopes of another top finish and gaining some more World Marathon Major points. However, regardless of how a marathon would paly out, it would still be a quick turn around, in terms of recovery and getting to the 5000 or 10000 at USATF's in hopes of qualifying for a world spot.

Another thing to consider is if she did compete in a spring marathon, that would potentially be 4 marathons in a roughly 20 month period if she competes in the Olympic marathon. This would be rough for any athlete, regardless of their track and marathon backqround, and especially for one aiming for the Olympics and perhaps a medal.

So, then the question is, why 28 miles now? She's been running 110 mile weeks leading up to seattle indoor mile and USATF XC. It's either the marathon, or Jerry is building an unbelievable large volume of mileage and workouts in hopes of it carrying over to next year!

JPat wrote:

Well, there's several angles that they could be looking at it in doing a spring marathon, and assuming that Boston would be the likely choice.

Probably because London field is stacked including Augusto's debut

Seko did that ages ago.