Georgetown

large one wrote:

I heard Springer's got a big shlong.

Springer is decent sized but nothing to write home about.

Greg Oden wrote:

large one wrote:

I heard Springer's got a big shlong.

Springer is decent sized but nothing to write home about.

No kidding, Greg. I could show him a real pecker.

why do they always drop out at big meets?

No the trails around georgetown are actually great. You can basically get on a trail system a quarter mile from campus and take that over to more hilly trails in rock creek park. Or you have the 50 mile toe path (all dirt crush rock) and have a great place to do flat straight tempo runs on a faster surface... it turned out dc is one of the better places i have lived for running..

in terms of accountability for poor performances: personally i ran well under henner given my potential.. still you want to feel like the coach is on your side going into the race rather than someone you are going to worry about facing after it is over.. i think that sort of "accountability" just adds another level of unnecessary pressure.. at the top level, all the guys WANT to do well. there's no reason to have someone go bezerk on you after a poor performance... im just theorizing for all the guys who would drop out of races. when it is that consistent and so many people do it from year to year, you have to stop and look at what attitude might be set on the team that makes so many athletes just say "forget, im already not living up to expectations in this race... ill just call it quits. maybe its not henner though but who knows...

I don't really think that Georgetown is doing that badly. They didn't have a lot of older guys on the team this year and actually everyone is still eligible to run next year. They lost multiple all americans. Just like any other sport, teams go in waves. Duke basketball isn't good every single year, but that doesn't mean Coach K is a bad coach. Henner has done a good job of recruiting and getting his team to the NCAA championships every single year. Both the athletes and the coach are responsible for poor performances as well as positive performances. Even if he has a tough love mentality like some people claim, he stills supports his athletes.

Another bad XC season + probably not making the NCAA dmr+ having no real national level individuals is not exactly doing well for gtwn.

Gtwn had a lot of success with 800-1500 guys in the gags era, Henner seems to go for more long distance types. A lot of them recently haven't improved much at gtwn though some have. I think they've been competitive for top recruits, but don't seem to get them anymore they seem to go all to Stanford, ivies + elsewhere. Not sure if the potential recruits aren't impressed by Henner or its just that they like other schools more. Maybe he is not good at recruiting guys with upside potential -hard to say.--their womens team seems to be doing well both recruiting and actual racing wise so I don't think the issue is with the school.

It seems like their guys are always running like they're in a time trial and not racing to win--bumbalough was an exception-just an observation

CAHoya wrote:

Another bad XC season + probably not making the NCAA dmr+ having no real national level individuals is not exactly doing well for gtwn.

Gtwn had a lot of success with 800-1500 guys in the gags era, Henner seems to go for more long distance types. A lot of them recently haven't improved much at gtwn though some have. I think they've been competitive for top recruits, but don't seem to get them anymore they seem to go all to Stanford, ivies + elsewhere. Not sure if the potential recruits aren't impressed by Henner or its just that they like other schools more. Maybe he is not good at recruiting guys with upside potential -hard to say.--their womens team seems to be doing well both recruiting and actual racing wise so I don't think the issue is with the school.

Being a hard ass with no charisma doesn't bode well for recruiting. Besides, you can bet new recruits talk with the current team members and ask pointed questions about the coach and his style. If they get a lukewarm response, that's probably enough to flip their decision.

Georgetown men finished 8th in cross country in 2008. Clearly Henner had to be doing something right. I agree that team performance varies by year.

sooji wrote:

I think American Univ. has also done pretty well for themselves in the same location.

yeah so well that the vast majority of the team quit and they didn't run a full women's team at XC regionals?

Sounds good to me!

running insider22 wrote:

Georgetown men finished 8th in cross country in 2008. Clearly Henner had to be doing something right. I agree that team performance varies by year.

You mean 10th. Tied for 10th, with Alabama. 319 points.

2000 and 2003 they finished 7th - the only times this decade they finished inside the top 10.

And this is for the program that has "stressed" distance guys more than mid-D guys.

They just aren't very good.

Helmer takes over from Gags:

2000: 7th

2001: 15th

2002: 18th

2003: 7th

2004: 15th

2005: 16th

2006: 24th

2007: 13th

Henner takes over here:

2008: 10th

2009: 22nd

2010: 29th

And you think they're going to do any better next year? With who? Who are their recruits? What guys do you see stepping up and making a big move? They were lucky to qualify this year, and won't qualify next year (Princeton and Villanova for those spots)

Their fall off in mid distance is more pronouned than in XC chronicled above. Hard to believe that Georgetown won't make an NCAA DMR two years in a row--next year is a stretch too--might not have any guys make individual events at ncaa meet in the disti-md dist this yr--given their history +effort they put into the sport that is crazy. I saw that they have one big recruit, Kaddurah, but unless he turns out to be like Bumbalough or better they will continue to slide.

Do they have any other recruits to help turn the ship around.

Maybe the decline in the distance is because they have had an improvement in the sprints? Maybe more money is getting put into sprints and leaving less for the distance group?

Anyone notice the improvement in the sprints/jumps side of things at Gtown?

According to guhoyas.com:

"In July 1999, Henner arrived on the Hilltop as an assistant coach for the men's and women's track & field program and head coach for the men's cross country squad"

Helmer coached the girls.

So the successes of the Men's cross country program must also be credited to Henner.

Yes, but you're really talking about a couple of guys(Chris Kinney and Toby Ulm), one graduating this year and one next year-another football guy graduated last yr. Their other sprint guys are better than they used to be but not close to being elite. I don't think that they have recruited any elite mens sprinters last yr or this year, so i don't think that they will maintain a strong program in that area either.

they are trending toward being mediocre in everything.

Yeah, they lost a couple of elite hurdlers this yr to transfer. Absent big recruits this year, their sprint program will be pretty minimal after next year. I think when they had Sheila Burrell as an asistant they wanted to become big time in sprints too which seemed to be working, especially in the hurdles. Based on their recruits they seem to have given up on that effort on the mens side at least, after Sheila Burrell left. Their women's team does have some good young sprinters though.

Georgetown was successful getting 5th year guys like Liam Boylan-Pett, who ran really well for them. Are they still doing this, or do they only get 5th year guys when their normal recruiting comes up short?