Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 10/24

Jrunner2k - I agree with Pablo on both points: 1) That 21-miler was an amazing workout that is pretty close to the goal race. You really need to take it easy the next 12 days!! You're work is done. Nothing you do now will help you in New York. But, if you do anything else that is too hard it will hurt your race. 2) You're 2:39 goal is too conservative. I just ran 2:39:58 and I didn't have a single workout faster than marathon pace (other than short stuff). My closest thing was 8 miles at 6:08 pace in a 12 mile run!!! Anyway - you are in GREAT shape and your training and sub 1:13 HM both point to a sub 2:35 (very conservative). But, even with that go out slower than goal pace for the first half. I don't know if you've done a marathon before. If you haven't done one before, my advice would be to go out in the first 1/2 about one minute slower than goal pace (if goal is 2:36, go through 1/2 in about 1:19). Good luck!!

Dan the Masters Man - I too think you should go with the 3:10 group and see how you feel after 18 miles. You should still feel good at 13. But, don't get too anxious and pick it up at 1/2 way. The real race starts at 20. My 2 cents about the long run pace: on my long runs with some marathon pace included would still be about 45 seconds slower than goal pace so if you're doing your long runs at only 30 seconds slower than 3:15 pace, that definitely seems too conservative of a goal. Good luck!! and, welcome to the thread - good to see you stop lurking and jump in! :-)

blaznbison24 - What a great week! You are on track for a stellar performance in Huntsville.

1st week after Columbus:

M - 3

T - 6

W - 7

T - off (1st day off since June 7th)

F - 5

S - 6

S - 7

Week - 34

YTD - 2,457

Quads a little sore Monday, but fine after that. Calves sore Monday - Wednesday, but fine after that. At one week post race - this is definitely the best I've felt after any previous marathon. The higher YTD mileage this year is obvious in that regard!

Road Racer, VF Runner, Pablo, Abu Seyame, fredflintsone:

Thanks for the feedback, guys. The more I think about it, the more I think that going with the 3:10 group 'til 18 or 20 is a smart strategy. I might find myself struggling over that last 10k, but I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be okay, and might even be able to crank up the pace slightly. The fact that this is my second marathon is giving me confidence, because I know what to expect, and I handled the last 10k of the first one really well.

Anyhow, I'll post a full report.

Jrunner2k - Your long run last weekend was amazing -- and you did it in Central Park no less. Anyway, it definitely points to faster than 2:39 as it seems you could have popped a 2:37 last Sunday. Like everyone else has said, take it easy the next 12 days and make sure to recover from the long run.

I was thinking the same thing as Roadracer when I read about your long run because I just ran 2:41 and was only managing 6:00/mi on my tempos of 6-8mi. Shoot, even when I ran 2:34 my best longer workout was 10mi @ 5:44/mi, so you are certainly ready to pop a fast one next weekend.

I echo what everyone else has said. I train in Central Park 5-6 days a week, so I can relate to the terrain, and I just ran 2:40:44 in Chicago (and think I could have run 2:39 if I raced a touch better) and my fastest race leading up was a 20k in 1:11:03 (i.e. 1:14:40 or so equivalent half).

Last year, I ran 1:18:02 in the NYC half (it was about 90 and humid, but it was an all out race and I don't know how much the heat really slowed me down... I didn't think it was as bad as others thought) and I ran 2:45 in NY (my first).

You ran 6:00 faster then I did last year for the same half course, yet your full marathon goal is only 5:00 faster then what I ended up running! Think about that... it should probably be 12:00 faster.

I bet you're in 2:33 shape right now. Go out in 1:16:00 and I bet you can run 2:33:30. But DON'T do any more hard workouts! You gain no fitness between now and NY. You can only tire yourself out.

Dan the M&M:

I say you are in 3:05ish shape. But there are many advantages in running in a group. So go with the 3:10 group through the half which will feel easy. Stay focused until 25-28K and then pick it up from there. You will probably negative split it (which is something most of us dream about) and feel great. Good luck!

Niagra Local: Will cut long run shorter, still want to throw in 3-4 at MP...

Road Racer: Like I wrote earlier, I think that run was under control, and I will definitely focus on recovery from here out! I guess the main reason for my 239 goal was : 1. faster than 10k-ish pace feels super fast, and 2. My best marathon is 2:48 NYC 2008, with a 2:54 in 2007...this will only be my 3rd, and I try to respect the distance.

Abu Seyame: I will probably re-adjust my goal to a 2:37 now...I also think training in Central Park day after day has probably slowed my average daily runs and workouts enough that my times weren't as fast as a lot of you guys were running them...Not to mention I never double due to a job that has me walking around for 6+hours and the last thing I want to do after work is run again.

4TM: 2:33 sounds absolutely absurd right now! BUT I see what you are saying....I have been telling everyone for months that my goal is a sub 2:40, and now with all the encouraging words it seems too safe a goal. The two tune-up half marathons I ran this fall were finished with a lot left in the tank, so maybe I am in better shape than I am giving myself credit for. I KNOW that if the race was on a flat course, no wind, and perfect conditions, I can roll out a 2:33-2:35...But you have done NYC, and know what those last few miles down 5th Ave can do...

I am thinking this wednesday 4x2mi at half pace might be too long, so maybe a 3x2mi at half pace or 3xmile at 10k pace, then the saturday 12-13 long run with last 3 MP (5:58-6:02!), next week 3xmile at half pace, and that's all... Sound good?

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Dan the Man, Seems like you and I are in the same boat leading into November 7th! Obviously I am not the marathon expert here, but the MP runs should make you way more confident, and I wouldn't worry about weight - if your training has been great, and you haven't gained any weight, then you will be fine. Also, I know a few guys who have a hard time breaking 19 but can run between 3:00-3:10 so you are not only fit for a long race, you are fast as well. How does your taper look the next few weeks?

Jrunner2k wrote:

I am thinking this wednesday 4x2mi at half pace might be too long, so maybe a 3x2mi at half pace or 3xmile at 10k pace, then the saturday 12-13 long run with last 3 MP (5:58-6:02!), next week 3xmile at half pace, and that's all... Sound good?

Everything looks okay there, except the 4x2mi @ HMP...that's too much. 3x2mi sounds much better. FWIW, what I did in the penultimate week before the Twin Cities Marathon this year was:

M: am - 8 easy (7:29) / pm - 4 easy (7:30)

Tu: am - 6 total w/ 3 miles of in/out 400's (avg 72 in/95 out) / pm - 4 easy (7:28)

W: 8 easy (7:17)

Th: 9 total w/ 4xmile @ HMP (5:24)

F: am - 4 easy (7:46) / pm - 4 easy (7:16)

Sa: 13 easy w/ 3 mi @ MP (5:40)

Su: 4 easy (7:37)

Weekly Total - 64 miles

I wanted closer to 70 miles that week, but work got in the way a couple times and I missed my second runs of the day. Don't overdo anything this week, like others have said....YOU'RE NOT IMPROVING FITNESS RIGHT NOW! The only thing you can do at this point is f**k it up. Do workouts only to prevent from going stale.

Jrunner2k wrote:

Also, I know a few guys who have a hard time breaking 19 but can run between 3:00-3:10 so you are not only fit for a long race, you are fast as well. How does your taper look the next few weeks?

I front-end loaded last week with the hard stuff, did my last long run on Thursday (22.4 miles @ 7:35/mi) and nothing but complete off days/very easy runs since then. That gives me 2.5 weeks of taper, broken up by one last 10km race this Sunday. Truth be told, the 10k is really the "goal race" that I care the most about. The marathon will hopefully be the icing on the cake for a good season.

I've found that a fairly drastic reduction in mileage and intensity for a couple weeks before goal races works really well for me. When I was younger it drove me nuts to properly taper for a goal race, and I often gave into the temptation to hammer a workout or two the week of the race when I shouldn't have. A couple years ago, I was forced by circumstances to take almost an entire week off before a 10 mile race. I had the typical fears about losing fitness, being stale etc. from the time off, but I ended up being as mentally sharp and physically strong as I ever had in a race. So I'm aiming for a repeat of that experience.

Good luck at NYC. I'm thinking about a visit to NYC for the marathon in 2011.