Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 10/24

1st week post AC

M - 0

T - 0

W - 0

Th - 4 (70% max hr)

F - 0

S - 6 (Just ran - turned out to be 7 min/mi.)

S - 9 (7:35ish easy with friends)

Feel pretty good with no soreness left. Trying to get back into it a little quickly because there are three races coming up that I'm doing (5mi,10k,8k) before Thanksgiving. I have started planning for the spring though. I've found a friend who is willing to run with me to try and pace me to run 2:48-50 and we'll run it at Gannsett.

Some interesting things from my last three marathons:

'08 NY - 2:57:4x Avg training mileage 54/wk

'09 Philly - 2:52:2x Avg 63.75

'10 AC - 2:56:3x Avg 60.4

NY I really suffered from 22.5 or so in to the finish. Philly, perfect conditions, very even pacing, strong to the end, even a bit of a kick (4 min PR). AC - Last two hurt quite a bit after fighting wind so much of the way, 2nd best ever but could have been faster on a better day, realistically - don't know if I could have bettered my PR, but I think I would have at least been close.

The performance/mileage numbers tell me I need more miles, so I want to end up averaging 70-75 for my marathon specific phase (Pfitz 12 wk.) this time. Until then I'm going to try for more miles overall, but mix in some hills/speed and probably even some indoor racing for some variety.

Goal Race: Houston

Goal Time: 2:35

M - 10M @ 6:25

T - 10M @ 6:35

W - OFF

R - 9M @ 6:40

F - 6M @ 6:45

S - 3M @ 6:50 6x Strides

S - 15M (Half Marathon ~1:14)

Total = 53 miles.

Tried to run relaxed for most of the race, but the humid 85-90* weather made it a bit difficult to manage. Most of the mile markers were off. Relied more on 'effort' today than time. Grade = B+

Race: 2010: Club Cross Nationals, First half of 2011... 5k-Boston

Goal: 15:59, 26:30, 1:13:59, 2:35:59

First week back (sort of).

Mon- 0

Tue- 0

Wed- 0

Thur- 0

Fri- 0

Sat- 3 miles. Felt good and felt like I was running fast.

Sun- 4.5 miles. SORE. My God its unbelievable that 12 days off and one day of 3 miles uptempo can make me sore... but every muscle was. Pushed the baby jogger, and that didn't help, I'm sure.

Weekly Total: 7.5 miles

Next week plan on 50-55

Goal race: Hamilton,ON 11/7

Goal time: sub 3:15 (??? see below)

Okay, now that most of the fast/serious/regular posters to this thread are done 'til spring, I'll jump in and provide a little bit of fodder, and possibly amusement. I've lurked here a long, long time, and enjoyed following the blow-by-blow accounts of others.

Long time (+20 years) competitive runner but second time marathoner. I've been following a modified Pfitzinger plan where I basically stretched his weeks into 10 day cycles. I have averaged 49 mpw for the last 18 weeks, topping out at 63 a couple weeks ago. One of the other ways I've modified the Pfitz plan is by doing longer and faster long runs than he suggests. I've done 6 long runs over 30km - topping out twice at 36.1km, at average paces from 7:35/mi to 7:50, over much hillier terrain than I will encounter at the marathon.

The dilemma I have is that just about everything in my training and racing points towards my goal pace as being too conservative. To start, my pace for long runs has really only been 30s per mile or less slower than my intended race pace (3:15 pace is 7:26/mi), and yet I have had no trouble whatsoever fully recovering from these long runs in 1-2 days. Plus, I haven't been struggling at all at the end of the long runs - a big difference from last year - I've finished all with fast closing miles.

During this training cycle I have dipped below 19 min for 5k, and 39 flat for 10k in races. All the race predictor tables I have seen suggest something within 5 minutes over or under 3 hours flat for a marathon time, based on my race results. To top it off, I know that if I did some Yasso 800s right now, I'd probably nail them in 3:00 flat, or better.

My hesitantcy to target a faster time is because my time last year was 3:29:30, and historically, I've done relatively better in shorter races. Right now, I'm 171 lbs, which isn't ideal for the longer distances. On the other hand, I've never come close to doing this much marathon-specific training, and honestly, I've never felt stronger or more confident.

The marathon I am running (Road2Hope Hamilton Marathon) is regarded as a particularly fast one that attracts a lot of people trying to qualify for Boston. My only other marathon was on this same course, so I know exactly what to expect. Pancake-flat first half followed by a nice gradual 3-4 mile downhill, followed by more pancake-flatness. The race has rabbits for 3:10, 3:20, 3:30 etc. paces.

Originally, I was thinking I might go out with that 3:20 group and try to hammer the second half. Now I'm thinking I'll try to hang with the 3:10 group (especially after re-reading this post). Anyone have any other suggestions? I'm being too conservative here, aren't I?

Week ending 10/24/1970

Goal Race: Boston Marathon

Goal time; sub 2:30

My main interest year round was to race marathons. Part of that training was to race whatever race became available as my speed training.

Still on vacation in Toronto.

13, 7, 13, 13, 13 = 59

Unless that is very similar training to what led you to last year's 3:29, it sounds like you are being conservative and 3:00 is a very real possibility. Conventional wisdom would say go with the 3:10 pace group for the first half (or more), and only then think about picking it up if you feel really good.

In this race, is it more important for you to a) do better than last year no matter what even if only a little bit or b) test yourself to try for the best possible time even if that risks a blow up?

That's my 2 cents. Some of the other "fast/serious/regular posters" will add their dimes and quarters woth of advice and you'll end up with a wealth of information to choose from. Whatever you decide, I think you are bound for a PR.

Goal: spring marathon PR

M: 8 =  5 am / 3 pm  

T: 10      =     6 am / 4 pm 

W: 9      =      4 am / 5 pm tempo

R: 6

F: 7.5     =   4 incl 5 strides / 3.5 pm

S: off planned  

S: 10 Central park reservoir (7:40)

Week total 50.5

This is my first week trying to run since berlin. I had aches in my quads/adductors/groin which didnt go away so i decided to jumpstart it by working through it. Seems to have worked. Pains have diminished!

Was in NYC for work and ran in central park. Boy is it hill there. I now appreciate ryan hall's oly trials race even more.

On wednesday night i did an unplanned 4 miles at MP on the rolling hills but it was a tempo effort. Great place to run, if i still lived in nyc i would love to get into shape in CP.  

Goal/next race:New York

Goal time: 2:50:59-sub3-Have fun?

Still don't know what my goal will be for New York. Running went well this week. I guess I'll evaluate the days before.

Two weeks until New York. My week:

M: Off

T: 7.00 @ 8:13 with 8 x 100m strides

W: 12.50 @ 7:35

R: 4.00 @ 8:23

F: 9.64 @ 7:49 with 6 x 1/2 mile @ 5k with 1/4 jog rest. (first 5 - 2:54, last one 2:56 with dry heaves, fun!)

S: 5.22 @ 8:24

S: 16.18 @ 7:28

Tot: 54.5

Pretty good long run today and workout on Friday.

Goal: Boston

Time: PR

M- off

T- off

W- off

Th- off

Fri- off

Sa- 3.5mi (7:05)

Su- 4mi (7:04)

Tot- 7.5mi

First "week" back after Chicago. Legs felt fine on the weekend runs. I did not feel any residual pain, fatigue, etc. from the marathon. Hopefully be back up around 40-50mi next week.

Recovery week after Columbus...and it included lots of bourbon and good ol' fashioned high calorie/fat food and as a "masters" runner it was needed, and honestly, it was quite enjoyable.

Goal Marathon: Rocket City, December 11

Goal Time: 2:30

Monday: Easy 7 and 3.5 mile runs

Tuesday: Easy 10 and 5.5 miles with strides

Wednesday: 14 miles with 7x2k with 1k faster recovery jog averaging 7:03/4:00. This was harder than I would have liked but I was probably just still banged up from my half; easy 3 miles

Thursday: Easy 3 and 8 mile runs

Friday: 10 miles medium with the last 7 under 6:00; Easy 4

Saturday: Easy 7 and 4 mile runs

Sunday: 16 miles easy and then went right into 6 miles in 5:41 avg.

Week Total=102 miles

Pablo - It is nice to have you back. I hope your cross-country trip was enjoyable.

4TM - Looks like we had the same exact plan for recovery after Chicago.

Blazin - Your training numbers impress me more every week. I think you are ready to pop a quick one in December.

Dan the Masters Man - Judging from your post I would concur with the others who have suggested that you should go out with the 3:10 pace group and if you feel good pick it up the second half. Your training definitely points to a quicker time than your listed goal. Perhaps you can post a few of your recent weeks of training so that we could give you some more in-depth insight about what your goal should be.

Goal Race NYC Marathon 11/7/2010

Goal Time: 2:39:59

Monday: 6miles slow/easy with a few strides/drills at the end.

Tuesday: 7miles progression run, 730 pace first mile, 6:00 last mile. windy on way back.

Wednesday: 14miles. 2warmup. 4mi-3mi-2mi-1mi with 3:30 jog in Central Park. 23:10, 17:15, 11:25,5:28. Feeling much more comfortable at sub 6:00pace these days. feeling like the training is coming together at the right time.

Thursday: 10miles, 7:30 pace average. feeling yesterday's workout.

Friday: 12miles progression. 8miles just under 7'pace. last 4 6:00-6:05. felt strong.

Saturday: 10 miles easy, 7:30's. few strides at the end. sore from lunges and squats.

Sunday: 20.90 miles, 2:09:10 (used the garmin) Central Park. Felt GREAT today! ran first 2miles with a few friends in 15:30 then rolled out 3+ 5mile loops solo (Avoiding Harlem Hills).Started around 96street on east side going counterclockwise.

6:06-5:59-5:59-5:59-6:11 [30:14]

5:56-6:05-5:52-6:02-6:07 [30:02]

5:44-6:02-5:52-5:50-6:06 [29:24]

5:43-5:58-5:34 [17:15]

Felt really comfortable through 10, picked effort up on 3rd loop, and went about half marathon effort last 3miles. Took 3 gu-gels, after each of the 3 fast loops. Really pumped about this one, considering the fact that back in August I was struggling to do 4miles tempo at 6:00pace. I think come november 7th, my sub 2:40 goal is within reach.

Total: 79mi/week.

Goal race: New York Marathon-sub 2:50.

Still trying to shake a bit of a head cold..

Mostly easy running this week:

Key workouts

Monday: 6 miles (first 4 easy then 6:10 and 5:49)

Friday: 6.5 miles (2 miles at 7:00 pace, 1.5 miles at 6:12 pace, 1/2 mile at 7:00 pace, mile in 5:52, 1.5 miles at 7:00 pace)

Today (Sunday)

20 miles, first 11.3 with a friend averaging 8 minute pace, then 8.7 averaging 6:55 pace on my own. 2 hours and 31 minutes. I wasn't really concerned with pace today, but more interested in spending 2 1/2 hours on my feet.

I think 3:20 is too conservative, but 3:10 might be just a bit ambitious given that you have been averaging only 49 miles per week. I suggest you run the first 20 miles at 3:15 pace then pick it up the last 10K if you feel good.

Dan the Masters Man - I agree with VFRunner. Although I don't think you're quite in shape for sub-3, I think you're more around 3:05. The fact that your long runs are only ~30 seconds slower than your 3:15 goal pace, tells me that you're in better shape than 3:15. My long runs were usually ~60 seconds per mile slower than intended goal pace. There's at least one poster here (Another) who doesn't even break 19:00 for a 5k (well, maybe once, I don't remember) and runs 2:52. I'd go with the 3:10 pace group, you can always run away from them after halfway. The only real wild card is your mileage, 49 mpw average doesn't seem like much, but over 18 weeks, it's not horrible.

blaznbison - Nice long run, basically a 16-mile warmup, then 6 miles slightly faster than MP...quality stuff.

Jrunner2k - Let me get this straight...you just did 18 miles at FASTER than goal MP only 2 weeks out from NYC. Forgive me for being a little blunt here, but either your goal should be 2:25 or you just ran your marathon out there yesterday. All I can say is you've got to focus on recovering from that effort from now until race day. You're clearly in excellent shape, and thats a run that many would not be able to do in training...myself included. I hope you can recover from that run, because if you can...you can most definitely go faster than 2:39.

Richmond Nov 13

goal 3:45

Monday off

Tues 6 mi. w/3 one mile repeats

Weds 9 mi. hard

Thurs 8 mi. hard/hills

Fri off

Sat 4 easy

Sun. Army Ten Miler 1:17:22 (7:44 pace)

Surprised and happy with yesterdays results. Ran two and half minutes faster than last years ATM.

I had a pretty bad week. I felt some pretty bad pain in my achilles during my PM run on Tuesday and ended up taking the rest of the week off. I'm seriously doubting that I will be in marathon-shape by 11/21. I've had too many interruptions this cycle.

Goal Race: Philadelphia

Goal Time: 2:40???

Mo - Off (planned)

Tu - AM: 14 miles, including 1 x 4 miles (23:54) and 1 x 2 miles (11:54); PM: 11 miles easy

We-Su - Off (unplanned)

Total: 25 miles

Tuesday's AM run was pretty tough with Saturday's long run still in my legs. It was also very windy, so I bailed on my second interval halfway through.

Pablo, and letsrunners,

I definitely hear you.. I hope you are right about being in better shape than my goal, maybe I am selling myself short?...I honestly didn't feel like yesterday was harder than a good 10miles followed by 8miles at a hard tempo... I really, REALLY hope you are wrong about leaving my race on the roads yesterday...That being said, here is my last 10months of training (abridged version, since I record everything in a notebook)

I only started posting last week so I will give you a bit more background info on myself- you can easily find my race results - this past January I ran a 1:14:46 1/2 in Manhattan, and in March I ran an all out 1:12:58, good for 49th overall at the Nike NYC Half Marathon. In May I ran a few 5k's around 1610-1630, and that was about it.

I ran the 1:14 off of :

57mi . (3 "workouts" 4x800 in 245,233,235,240 w/3:00r, 3mile tempo 17', 6mi tempo 35:30)

41mi (1 progressive run last 3 in 18'...7mi treadmill, last 5 546/536/536/640/548)

47miles (Manhattan 1/2 in CP) (3xmi 536,531,529 w/2:00r, 4x800 246,245,245,245 w/60s rec)

Then 1:12:59 2 months later

35mi (1progression down to 620pace)

47 mi (9on treadmill with last 4: 635,626,611,549)

43 mi (wed: 4x800 250,245,242,239 60s rec, sat: 3mi tempo 558,550,545)

52 mi (thurs: 6x800 3:03, 253,249,247,246,245, 60s rec. sat: 5tempo 552,552,549,542,550)

51 mi (thurs: 3mi in 1750, 3xmi 557,556,552 (was sick) sunday:13 last 4 in 630,615,603,553 treadmill)

47 mi (tuesday: 8x800 310,251,248,245,249,248,248,239 60s rec.. sunday 12mi, 6 in 3525)

51 mi (tues: 4xmi 526,525,529,521 60s rec...)

47 (Nike Half) (Monday: 8x800 245-247, 2:00 'rec, thurs 3.5mi tempo 5:38pace hilly CP)

______________________________

The summer was spent running and trying to deal with the heat. The last week of August I decided to get down to business and train properly for NYC.

8/23-8/29:

62miles.

tues 3x800 255,308,248.

sunday 5k in 1710 (ouch).

8/30-9/5:

51.5

Wed 10x3:00hard, 1:00jog.

Sunday 5k race1650 then 2mi hard cooldown 6:00,6:01.)

9/6-9/12:

61miles, 6days

Monday:Long run 2:01:00, 7-730pace.

Thurs: 6xmi 60sec recovery at 6:00 pace felt hard,

Friday 11mi, last 5 555-600, felt great! in Philly by the river)

9/13-9/19:

70mi, 7days

Monday LR 2:14:40. 19mi. hilly! Last 10 630-640.

Thurs: 8x800,60sec recovery 248-255..

Sunday 5mile race hilly in Brooklyn 28:09 + 6mi cooldown last 3 610,605,557)

9/20-9/26:

73mi,7days

Monday LR 2:21. 20mi. Last 10 under 650.

Thursday: 8x600 1:55-1:58 w/2:00 r.

Sunday : Jersey City Half, 1:15:30. flat course held back the first 7, (550's, last 6 537-544 at 171-175 heart rate). overall 169bpm for race.

9/27-10/3:

73.5mi, 7days

Thurs: 6xmi 60s rec. 545,549,545,547,541,545.

Sunday: 22.5mi, 2:28:00 Van Cortland Park in Bronx. Last 10 hard 158-163bpm about 6:00-6:25 ...6:00 were on flat trails, 620's were in the realy tough backhills...last 2 on a track 5:57 161hr, 5:51 164hr)

10/4-10/10:

71, 6days

Wed 10mi easy , last 2 in 605,559.

Thursday 4x2mile loop in Central Park: 11:44 (170bpm), 11:30 (170bpm), 1136 (171bpm), 1139 (173bpm). all with 3:00rec.

Sunday: SI Half in 1:15:58, 164bpm average. at goal MP-5 or 10 seconds, 555, 553 (157bpm),552 (157), 552 (161), 559 (160-hill), 538(159 downhill) 554 (159) 603 (164 hill) 536 (163), 540 (165) 547 (165), 553 (167) 553 (167 hill) 521 (172-downhill)

10/11-10/17

75miles 6days:

Thurs: 3x3mi 1745 (166bpm), 1733 (171bpm) 1732 (169bpm)

Sunday 23mi, 2:38:55. Last 6 618 (150bpm) 614 (159), 613 (162), 606 (164), 603 (167) 558 (172)

10/18-10/24

Monday: 6miles slow/easy with a few strides/drills at the end.

Tuesday: 7miles progression run, 730 pace first mile, 6:00 last mile. windy on way back

Wednesday: 14miles. 2warmup. 4mi-3mi-2mi-1mi with 3:30 jog in Central Park. 23:10 (165), 17:15 (168) , 11:25 (169),5:28 (171). Feeling much more comfortable at sub 6:00pace these days. feeling like the training is coming together at the right time.

Thursday: 10miles, 7:30 pace average. feeling yesterday's workout.

Friday: 12miles progression. 8miles just under 7'pace. last 4 6:00-6:05. felt strong.

Saturday: 10 miles easy, 7:30's. few strides at the end. sore from lunges and squats.

Sunday: 20.90 miles, 2:09:10 (used the garmin) Central Park. Felt GREAT today! ran first 2miles with a few friends in 15:30 then rolled out 3+ 5mile loops solo (Avoiding Harlem Hills).Started around 96street on east side going counterclockwise.

6:06 (150)-5:59 (156)-5:59 (154)-5:59 (156)-6:11 (159) [30:14]

5:56 (156)-6:05 (158)-5:52 (159)-6:02 (154)-6:07 (159) [30:02]

5:44 (157)-6:02 (160)-5:52 (161)-5:50 (161)-6:06 (160) [29:24]

5:43 (158)-5:58 (166)-5:34 (168) [17:15]

Felt really comfortable through 10, picked effort up on 3rd loop, and went about half marathon effort last 3miles. Took 3 gu-gels, after each of the 3 fast loops. Really pumped about this one, considering the fact that back in August I was struggling to do 4miles tempo at 6:00pace. I think come november 7th, my sub 2:40 goal is within reach.

Total: 79mi/week

_________________

I feel that my training has been getting stronger and stronger from week to week, and this has been my most consistent segment of training since sophomore year of college in 03...

I know with the next two weeks of proper training, I can hit my goal...Now that I posted all my training, let me know what you guys think... Is my goal too conservative? Did I really just blow it on Sunday with 18 at that pace? I honestly was feeling great and was running that pace because it felt good... I really enjoy the training process, and now that I have been posting here I love the feedback...

The plan for the next two weeks:

10/25-10/31

50-60miles with Wed: 4x2mi at 540-550

Saturday 15 with last 5 at 6:00pace.

11/1-11/7

tuesday 3-4xmi at 540. 35-38mi pre race.

sunday 26.2 at 6:00-6:10/mi

Wow well that took a while, but it makes up for reading letsrun messageboard all the time and not posting anything ever...

I am off for an easy hour jog on some trails.