who has tried lydiard's 200mile/week marathon schedule?

I just took a look at one of the training articles on the Lydiard Foundation website. It is Marty Liquori's description of his Lydiard training. There's a photo of Liquori and Ryun at the Dream Mile. The year is erroneously listed as 1970. Ryun was in retirement in 1970. The race was in 1971.

http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/training/publishedArticles/MartyLiquori.aspx

So Lydiard was a fraud??>!!!????

No, instead of PEDS AL forze his athletes bodies in time with science, so that they could train twice as hard

HRE wrote:

I did read it. He never recommended 200 mpw for anyone.

He TRIED 200 mpw. Experimented on himself and found it to be too much. That was why he recommended 100 mpw.

Exactly. But Jeff Julian did get to that sort of volume. He would often

do two thousand miles in his ten week build up.[/quote]

The usual Lydiard main logic.

He tried on himself + Lydiard says + it’s good + + he recommended + i shall do.

He tried on himself + Lydiard says + it’s not good + + he didn’t recommend + i shall not do.

When you will be able to do one little step further in your training understand and jump to best training level interpretation ?

When you will realize that one single experience, can’t decide about the best thing to do, despite that Lydiard is a single man does very good coach skill ?

It’s a pity that people with so sincere and genuine running passion can’t go out of that close circle of training understand. You do the same wrong training conclusion on and on.

I used to run 100-110 mpw in college. I was a 23:47 guy in xc, 13:55 5k/28:20 10k guy on the track. After college, I moved up to the marathon and did pretty well. I ran sub 2:19 in my debut and topped out at 125 as my highest week. My friend bet me that I couldn't do 2 things A)Run an Ultra Marathon and B)Reach 200 miles in one week. Never the less, I did in fact run 200 miles in a single week. I did it in 7 days, 17 runs and the breakdown was this:

Sun-25

Mon-10 10 10

Tues-10 10 8

Wed-16 9 8

Thurs-10 14

Fri-13 16

Sat-11 8 12

I was completely dead and struggled the ENTIRE WEEK. I got hurt and had to take some time off. NEVER AGAIN will I ever attempt to do this nor do I suggest that anyone ever tries this. It does more bad than good.

And yes I completed the ultra marathon. I don't know which was worse; the 200 mile week or the race.

13:45*

As I remember it, marathoner Juma Ikaanga of Tanzania, and formerly of Alamosa, used to play with the 200-mile week. Think he ran a 2:08. Also, Kiwi masters' record holder, with a 2:11 at the ripe old age of 41, John Campbell documented that kind of mileage.

Just run two hours a day in two runs and a long one on Sunday. Start slowly and adapt over the years. This is what Mark Nenow did. Probably got him up to about 150 a week and the native born AR in the 10k that stood until this year. Of course, I believe Nenow said he took off a considerable amount of time between Thanksgiving and Xmas, and to the extent that's true, maybe there's wisdom to be heralded there.

I also think very highly of Joe Vigil. Interesting what the Adams State guys do and continue to do, and that Vigil could adapt his training to marathoners like Deena Drossin with success.

Sagarin wrote:

Just run two hours a day in two runs and a long one on Sunday. Start slowly and adapt over the years. This is what Mark Nenow did. Probably got him up to about 150 a week and the native born AR in the 10k that stood until this year. Of course, I believe Nenow said he took off a considerable amount of time between Thanksgiving and Xmas, and to the extent that's true, maybe there's wisdom to be heralded there.

I also think very highly of Joe Vigil. Interesting what the Adams State guys do and continue to do, and that Vigil could adapt his training to marathoners like Deena Drossin with success.

1) No such thing as the "native born AR." That's just a convention of your bigoted imagination.

2) Her name is Deena Kastor and she's gone by that for about a decade now. Time to get used to it.

Lilly Ard wrote:

I used to run 100-110 mpw in college. I was a 23:47 guy in xc, 13:55 5k/28:20 10k guy on the track. After college, I moved up to the marathon and did pretty well. I ran sub 2:19 in my debut and topped out at 125 as my highest week. My friend bet me that I couldn't do 2 things A)Run an Ultra Marathon and B)Reach 200 miles in one week. Never the less, I did in fact run 200 miles in a single week. I did it in 7 days, 17 runs and the breakdown was this:

Sun-25

Mon-10 10 10

Tues-10 10 8

Wed-16 9 8

Thurs-10 14

Fri-13 16

Sat-11 8 12

I was completely dead and struggled the ENTIRE WEEK. I got hurt and had to take some time off. NEVER AGAIN will I ever attempt to do this nor do I suggest that anyone ever tries this. It does more bad than good.

Only if you are stupid in your build-up, which you probably were.

From what I can see there was no build-up, it was like from 100 straight to 200. In fact a rest week before might have helped him through it. In any case this kind of mileage is not for everybody; Benji Durden ran his 2:09 off 90 MPW, after he found 120-130 too much for his own body to handle.

Not in any way, shape, or form a bigot, & have helped assimilate West African refugees into the US. But it was a benchmark for a long time, and you're a fool if you think others don't recognize it. Even so, it's still a feat, because how many people have broken (both indigenous and not) it some 25 years later? 4? That's the POINT.

Secondly, she started as Deena Drossin under Vigil and his marathon methods. That was the point. VIGIL.

Really felt the need to jump in, eh? Let's get back to talking about high mileage, Pricayune.

Try that agin, but this time coherently.

"again"

thanks to all the serious remarks. i should have known better than to post on letsrun, but what the hey.

i know that lydiard does not tell everyone to run 200miles, and that he believes in a 100mile base with as much sup. mileage as you can handle (ie, upto an additional 100miles). i was asking if anyone had experience with this much mileage. nothing more or less.

the greatest part about lydiard's training methods are often the most frustrating to interpret.

HRE - do you mind if i e-mail you with some questions?

thanks

There are two people that have posted on these boards

that have done it or at least come close. Gerry Lindgren and Jim Bowles.

There may be others, but I'm not aware of them.

Lydiard found the 200 miles a week exhausting and he got

no improvement from it after six weeks, I think. He also

tried as low as 50 per week and found that not enough for

any noticeable improvement.

There is a passage in at least one of his books, in which

there was a period where he did 12 miles most days.

I know that Lydiard said the build up could be as long as possible in some of his later books that seemed to target people like me, recreational runners, but he seemed to consider about 10 weeks adequate for elites like Snell, Halberg, Magee, Baillee, Julian, Puckett, Davies and the rest. The hill phase that was originally around 6 weeks, then later shortened to about 4 weeks seemed to be around 90 miles and the following periods would have even less mileage.

The part of that book that recommended 100 miles a week at decent paces then supplementary running that would add another 10 or so hours of running was probably something Lydiard should have never stated or allowed to be printed.

"Some of my best friends are _____." Every bigot everywhere says that, at least until they come to terms with their true nature.

BFD, the point is that you're a dumbass who can't even get minor details right. If you can't even figure out what name the rest of us have known her by for years and years then what's the chance that you know anything more complex than that?

E-mail me anytime. One of the reasons I made a point of getting to know him and some of the "gang" is because I wanted to understand those vague bits.

Commenting on Bob's post, you have to understand that Arthur either coached, lectured or wrote about training for over half a century. In that span of time anyone is going to have different ideas about a particular topic no matter who the person is or what the topic is.

In the 40s and 50s Lydiard experimented on himself and on local runners who trained with him. These were not the guys who made him famous but a few of them went on to become national class in New Zealand. At one point he had them doing eight miles a night. That was all. But as those runners became known in New Zealand and the "experts" learned they were doing eight miles a night they immediately began criticizing Arthur for having them run too much claiming they'd burn out. Of course the same thing happened when people found he had his later guys doing 100 mile weeks.

Years and years later he was criticized by an Australian exercise physiologist for not having his guys do enough. This seems to have been what got Arthur telling people that if you added in the "supplemental runs" his guys were closer to 200 mpw. And yes, of course they were closer technically. One hundred twenty is closer to 200 than 100 is and guys like Puckett and Julian were definitely in or near that 200 mile neighborhood and Tayler was pretty close.

Later still Arthur made the comment about doing 160 km at a good aerobic pace and then doing as much as another 160 of very easy running. But he was really talking theoretically then, much as van Aaken was when he said ideally a marathoner could run as much as 50 miles a day. I don't know of any athlete van Aaken coached who actually did that much unless they were running an ultra marathon and aside from Julian and Lydiard I don't know of any Lydiard trained athlete who regularly did 200 mile weeks, though I suspect that several athletes who have run that much were inspired by his "miles make champions" comment. He was really just pointing out that you can do quite a lot of easy running and benefit.

hawkruner wrote:

thanks to all the serious remarks. i should have known better than to post on letsrun, but what the hey.

No you should have known better than to try to characterize Lydiard as saying something he did not.

i know that lydiard does not tell everyone to run 200miles, and that he believes in a 100mile base with as much sup. mileage as you can handle (ie, upto an additional 100miles). i was asking if anyone had experience with this much mileage. nothing more or less.

Wrong. A lie in fact You asked if anyone had tried "LYDIARD's 200 mile/week marathon SCHEDULE. It's the title of the whole thread.

He DOESN'T HAVE a 200 mile/week marathon schedule. That's all anyone tried to tell you. But you kept right on insisting "it's there in black and white" when, of course, it wasn't. This exactly how this idiotic myths get started.

When you ask if anyone's tried to run 200 mpw? That's a valid question. A good question.

When you ask if anyone has tried "Lydiard's 200 mpw schedule" you are doing the same pointless spin and distortion that so many other people do: Putting words into his mouth.

The man used to get livid over how people said he training was all about LSD. He hated that. There was nothing slow at all about his training. That was Joe Henderson, not Lydiard. But because so many people just like you have screwed it up, the myth pervades.

All I and (a few others) were trying to do was to make it clear that any 200 mpw schedule was not his nor did he recommend it. One post would have been all it took if you hadn't insisted upon repeating the misinformation.

It's not that he does not tell "everyone" to run too 200 miles. He does not tell ANYONE to run 200 miles.