Why America should become obsessed with 800/1500/mile

do the sublime wrote:

Jonathon Johnson: PR- 1:44.69, semi-finalist, 2004 Olympics

Andrew Wheating PR- 1:44.62, knocked out 1st round, 2008 Olympics

Yet you state JJ is national class and Wheating is widely considered the savior of american middle distance by the letsrun gentry.Hmmmmm?

That's a wee bit of a narrow lens, sir. I hope nobody thinks Wheating is "the savior of american middle distance," but it's pretty hard to not put him well ahead of JJ.

JJ had a great 2004, but hasn't done much since. He has a pr from a meet that didn't matter--anything else? He took 6th at NCAAs a year after the Olympics, his senior year. He hasn't placed in the top 3 at the U.S. Championships since 2004.

Wheating? In 2004, Wheating wasn't even running track. In 2008, his third year running track and second running the 800, he beat Johnson to qualify for the Olympics (Johnson was last in the final). Then he came back and won NCAAs the next year. Then he won the 8/15 double at NCAAs, which no one had done for 26 years.

Wheating is already better than Johnson, and Wheating seems to be rising.

ventolin^3 wrote:

i suggest you do some research before spouting nonsense

2'50 into this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8HIRvZNaM

& i settled on 3'24/3'25 for him a long time ago

He also says in that interview that his 2nd lap was 58 and he went through 880 in 1:58. Both wrong. He went through in 1:56, so his second lap was under 56.

It's called selective memory. If he can't remember his lap times accurately then his recollection of the temp is hardly reliable. I'll go with the Pathe film clip's "in the 80's" thanks.

And you also have a selective memory or are else just a liar. From the garbage that comes out your mouth I'd say it's both.

"..but ryun was likely a 3'27/3'44 guy back in his 1500wr on a '70s track"

This is a quote from you less than a year ago, and here's the link:-

On page 3.

Schmuck!!

I can't find a video of his 3:33.1 wr, but here is Ryun's 3:51.1 world record, where he leads the entire race, making it into essentially a solo effort, running 59s for each of the first three laps before running 53/4 to close. Give him rabbits and a contemporary track and 3:44 is not completely outlandish. He was at 2:57 at 1320 when today's set up races will be at 2:49/51 and El G got 2:47 or even better, drafting all the way. El G in his mile had Ngeny pushing him all the way after the rabbits and in his 1500 had Lagat (not sure if that was the 3:26 flat race or just over) doing the same. Ryun had no one close to him in the mile wr and obviously Keino fell way back in the fifteen.

Lol!

Great point. Always worth a laugh to see Ventolin uncovered as a liar and a fool!

2 points.

1) Ryun excelled off reasonable slow pace and then a big kick over the last lap.

Where is the evidence he could or would psychologically want to go with a 2:49 three quarters time, and then maintain it to the end?

2) Suggesting 3:44 (or 3:27 for its 1500 equivalent) is not completely outlandish on a mondo 90's track with perfect pacing, conditions, etc. To suggest 3:24 (3:40/41) IS OUTLANDISH.

Different tracks and even splits isn't going to improve anyone over a Mile by 10secs!

moron

seeing an actual temperature reading on a board is a lot easier to remember than 3 or 4 splits that you didn't time yourself but someone tells you is

learn to read idiot

that was posted last year & i thought about the 95 temperature after, when i saw the interview

grand slam wrote:1) Ryun excelled off reasonable slow pace and then a big kick over the last lap.

Where is the evidence he could or would psychologically want to go with a 2:49 three quarters time, and then maintain it to the end?

complete utter moron

the guy broke the 800/1500/1 mile wrs & wouda broken the 1k wr if he had bothered with it

you DON'T do this if you can only "kick of a slow pace"

running ~2'46 for last 1200 of his 1500 shows your argument is complete drivel

2) Suggesting 3:44 (or 3:27 for its 1500 equivalent) is not completely outlandish on a mondo 90's track with perfect pacing, conditions, etc. To suggest 3:24 (3:40/41) IS OUTLANDISH

perfectly feasible & for a '70s track

you have to stop acting as a moron & follow logic & don't let your retarded predjustices/preconceptions stunt your brain even more - you expected to see a 9.58 when wr was 9.77 coupla years before ???

3'33wr

- that time works out to 3'30+ at even pace ( & no time knocked off for keino's haphazard wabbiting - he wasn't a consistent 2m ahead until bell )

- knock off 3.75s for conversion from dirt to '70s track at 1s/lap conversion - which i can testify along with many others - i ran on both dirt/'70s track & my scaled down time worked out at 1s/lap

he's now down into 3'26s

- know knock off an unknown quantity for running at a ludicrous hyperthermia/heatstroke inducing 95F ( see ovett in '84 ) instead of the "ideal" temperate 60 - 70F - it is unknown but in magnitude of whole seconds rather than tenths - plenty of anecdotal evidence of this

that certainly gets him into '25s & very probably the 3'24s

Because Andrew Wheating just ran 3:30.90

Because the ladies are representing in Monaco:

Alycia Johnson just set the world leading mark at 800

Shannon Rowbury just gave the Africans a go at 3k running 8:31 in the process

There were two Americans in the top 3 at 800 meters

Symmonds and Torrence in the 800 also

Because everyone can run the mile.

I'm from Boise, where there's an event called the Main Street Mile. It has several heats of the mile. Different waves include: high school, open, kids chasing an ice cream truck, masters, mascot race, corporate, and a team challenge where fireman, military, etc all have to wear 35 pounds of gear.

The whole event is an absolute blast. All different personalities and skills and intensity levels come together for one big party. Unlike longer road races, everyone can watch everyone else's event. It's obviously not high pressure, but it still has a bigger emphasis on speed, and less of an emphasis on merely surviving. Plus nobody takes 6 hours to finish.

I've seen some similar open track meets where lots of people of all different levels mix come together to race different waves of the mile. If people are going to care about track, a lot more of them have to participate in it. People have to have ownership, an investment, to care about something.

Dude trains and trains, finally breaks six in the mile. He wins, and so does elite track, because everyone who shared in the experience with him understands a little bit more about running, and has that much greater of an appreciation for what the elites can do.

Because the best middle distance runners can run quality races several times a year.

Andrew Wheating wasn't at his best all year, but he was able to put on a show anyway at indoor nationals, Penn, Pac-10s, NCAAs, Pre, and he still had his best stuff left for Europe.

If people are going to care about track, they have to see relevant runners competing.

Dont forget the ladies wrote:

Because several American women are tearing it up at 800 and 1500 meters

and

Los Soles wrote:

Because one of these athletes, male or female, is going to break through and win an Olympic gold medal. There just isn't enough of a gap between America's best and the world's best. Everyone who makes the final in these events has a legitimate chance to either medal or finish last. Eventually training, mindset, and tactics are going to align for someone like Nick Symmonds, Andrew Wheating, Lopez Lomong, Leo Manzano, Shannon Rowbury, Anna Pierce, or any of like eight other women 800m runners.

We'll start with WC gold for Simpson.

This was a great thread, and in addition to Jenny S's gold medal, I'll add another reason:

The 800 is the fastest race not run in lanes, and the 1500 is the second fastest race not run in lanes.

Lanes limit the tactics and therefore the drama of the race, while longer distances limit how fast the race can be run. The 800 and 1500 combine high speed + lots of tactical potential, which makes them potentially more dramatic and interesting, especially to casual viewers, than sprints run in lanes or longer, slower distances.

Primordial Ooze wrote:

The 800 is the fastest race not run in lanes, and the 1500 is the second fastest race not run in lanes.

Lanes limit the tactics and therefore the drama of the race, while longer distances limit how fast the race can be run. The 800 and 1500 combine high speed + lots of tactical potential, which makes them potentially more dramatic and interesting, especially to casual viewers, than sprints run in lanes or longer, slower distances.

Absolutely. Even things like Uceny falling, while incredibly disappointing, add to the drama, the risk of these races.

Medal ? wrote:

Bring us a WC Medal from Daegu 2011 and then ask again...

Someone just got owned.

this is a great time for US middle distance running. We actually have a lot of depth in this event.

How awesome would that be if there were 3 americans in each final??? It is a possibility. The americans could run team tactics and set the race up for the top american.

This scenario is very much a possibility

*****************************************

2012 London

Women's 1500m final Startlist.

1. Simpson

2. Uceny

3. Peirce / Rowbury / Donahue / Wurth-Thomas

Men's 1500m final Starlist.

1. Centrowitz

2. Manzano

3. Wheating / Leer / Webb / Torrence

------------------------------------------------

Women's 800m final Startlist.

1. Alysia Johnson Montano

2. Maggie Vessey

3. Alice Schmidt (albeit getting older) / Hazel Clark

Men's 800m final Startlist.

1. Symmonds

2. Wheating if he decides to go back to the 800

3. Charles Jock

I guess we can tack on Centro's bronze here.