Why America should become obsessed with 800/1500/mile

This is one of the most cogent, and coherent, posts on this board in a long time. Bravo and I concur.

I will add that while the U.S. has dominated sprinting for decades (which now is ceding to the Jamaicans), it has done so at the expense of the soul of the sport. By comparison, the men's middle distances (and MOST of the women's) have been free of the doping scandals which call into question every decent sprint performance out there.

Because unlike short sprinting, there is time for a race to develop, and race dynamics to change.

Because unlike greater distances, there is uncertainty closer to the finish line.

Because the fields seem genuinely competitive (with the exception of Rudisha), and outsiders from shorter and longer distances are interesting to think about.

I've run forever, and only recently have I become seriously interested in the 800/1500/mile.

Because several American women are tearing it up at 800 and 1500 meters

Agreed.

the 800 is the Human Horse Race.

pretty much everybody in the field has a chance with 150 to go.

and DOWN the stretch they come!!!!!!!

there is NOTHING better than an 800 with a fast first lap, with everybody dying as they come down the stretch.

I really think they should have a 4x8 at the olympics, or if they don't want to put it in the olympics, have it in 2010, 2014, 2018, etc. Or a 4x600. the 4x4 is a great race but it sucks internationally 'cause the USA is always 5 seconds clear of the field. A 4x8, 4x6, or a middle distance medley would be exciting. Lots of different countries would have a chance and it would be real close. Or a 3x8 or a 3x6.

Because several American women are tearing it up at 800 and 1500 meters

Totally.

Because one of these athletes, male or female, is going to break through and win an Olympic gold medal. There just isn't enough of a gap between America's best and the world's best. Everyone who makes the final in these events has a legitimate chance to either medal or finish last. Eventually training, mindset, and tactics are going to align for someone like Nick Symmonds, Andrew Wheating, Lopez Lomong, Leo Manzano, Shannon Rowbury, Anna Pierce, or any of like eight other women 800m runners.

And the thing is, all these people are pretty cool, as far as I know. They are the kinds of people I would want representing track to a national audience. I'm not sure that's as true for the LD crowd, or any other track event.

Because the four-minute mile is still perfect.

There is nothing else in track that holds so much meaning, even all these years later. Think about it. Do you know the meaning of any times in any swimming events? I don't. It's the same in track to the casual fan. Most people have no idea what a good 5,000 time is: 13 minutes and 16 minutes will draw blank stares. But everyone knows what a four-minute mile is.

Don't make people think too hard: the 4-minute mile makes sense: four laps, one minute each lap. And it's still very much elite. It's still extremely rare for a high schooler to break four, and still very tough for the best collegiate runners. The best in the world are only running a few seconds faster, except in perfect conditions with great rabbits.

People always ask, "What's a good time in this event?" That's not easy to answer, even though I know. Keep it simple, stupid. Times in the 800 and 1500 make sense relative to the four-minute mile.

800: half a mile, shorter so it's faster--several seconds under 2 minutes. That makes sense. Tell 'em 1:45, and you've got something round that people can remember.

1500: Just tell people, "It's about 20 seconds faster than a mile." Not terribly precise, but close enough: KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID! Then, 3:40 is a barrier that makes sense. And you don't have to run much faster than 3:40 to medal at the Olympics.

(thunderous applause, sir)

I'm still going.

Because you don't have to be ridiculously skinny to excel. I mean, you can be. But lots of body types do well, from Symmonds to Lomong to Wheating to rail-thin East Africans.

In the longer stuff, the obsession with skinny moves toward a dangerous fine line far too often, especially among the women. It can get pretty horrible on college teams. That's simply not the case in Mid D.

Los Soles wrote:

third place has never been slower than 1:46 flat,

Since then third place has never been slower than 3:40.69

Does that mean that 3:40.69 was the Slowest time to be third in that time period? If so I think a better judge would be to tell us what the fastest time to be third is. If the fastest times to be third are within reach of US athletes' PRs then it makes sense to really be shooting for that. However a really bad slow year with a weak third place time doesn't really tell us much about our chances to medal.

Look More Closelerly wrote:

Los Soles wrote:

third place has never been slower than 1:46 flat,

Since then third place has never been slower than 3:40.69

Does that mean that 3:40.69 was the Slowest time to be third in that time period? If so I think a better judge would be to tell us what the fastest time to be third is. If the fastest times to be third are within reach of US athletes' PRs then it makes sense to really be shooting for that. However a really bad slow year with a weak third place time doesn't really tell us much about our chances to medal.

The OP mentioned the winning time has never been faster than 3:32:

"1500: In 1960, Herb Elliot won the Olympic gold medal with a 3:35.6. Since then third place has never been slower than 3:40.69, and first place has never been faster than 3:32.07."

That's not surprising since it's typically tactical and they do run rounds before the final. That said, that is the fastest winning time and that is certainly within reach of guys like, Leo, Webb, Lomong, Lagat and Wheating. In a few years perhaps Centro, Acosta & Fernandez. The key is being able to kick like mad to 3:32 off of 3:35-3:37 pace. But that is for gold. 3:33-3:36 may end up with silver or bronze.

The nice thing about the shorter races is if you are still in it with 200 to go magical things can happen provided you do have finishing speed. Wheating and Webb do, Lagat may be a little outdated for it, Leo and Lomong on the right days, and Centro, Fernandez and Acosta are all heading the right way (ok Fernandez is a question mark right now). Then you have these guys on the bubble of becoming great 1500 guys like Andrews and Fleet.

I'd like to see a healthy and primed Webb and Wheating in the 1500 for the next olympics. With their 800 speed and if they are in 3:30-3:32 shape getting past the rounds should be relatively comfortable. Put those 2 in the final when things are clicking and America better be watching.

10 seconds in the 100m holds more meaning than a 4-minute mile.

nobody outside the USA cares about the mile, everybody cares about the 100m

base 10 baby!

base 10 wrote:

nobody outside the USA cares about the mile

Er, have you heard of Bannister? Landy? It's still the magic distance in all Commonwealth countries.

I grant that it may be less significant to a Frenchman.

base 10 wrote:

nobody outside the USA cares about the mile, everybody cares about the 100m

Note the "America" in the subject.

Look More Closelerly wrote:

Does that mean that 3:40.69 was the Slowest time to be third in that time period? If so I think a better judge would be to tell us what the fastest time to be third is.

I was pointing out the medal range, which I find to be shockingly small for both events. I also was showing that Snell and Elliot's efforts weren't flukes--their times from the early '60s are more-or-less right in the middle of the medal range for the last 50 years. It wasn't like Snell was some freak of nature that busted the natural progression, and everybody else has been steadily rising since then. Times haven't really been rising at all.

very good post. I don't see how exactly we can do this, though. Maybe we can put more emphasis on the 800. Everyone already loves the mile, and everyone tries it. Certain events suit certain runners. The fill those events appropriately.

OP, nice, thought-out post!

Very nice sentiment but where was all this support when KD, Gray, Johnson, Parrilla, Krumnacker, Everett were running faster than Wheating and Symmonds are today. All of a sudden we realize how exciting the 800 is.