GREGSON VS. WHEATING MONACO 1500!

ahh the hasty replier... don't just read, understand..

a) yes Wheating increased his speed at the end, and passed some people, this does not constitute a kick.

b) yes hindsight is a wonderful thing, in hindsight Justin Gatlin shouldn't have run at Athens... BUT with the information available at the time he had to run, in hindsight YES wheatings start was warranted, BUT with the info available at the time Gregson got shafted.

c) they will race head to head in Monaco, and Gregson will prevail, hence my post numb nuts.

greigting wrote:

... he got a free pass into that race when he shouldn't have, because he was the local duck boy... This is the diamond league people...

Diamond League (or previously Golden League) meets and other top flight European meets almost always have a local citizen in a race or two. The Diamond League races are money making events after all and having a local in a race or two helps ticket sales and adds some excitement.

Nice reply -- toss out some insults to direct attention away from the fact that Wheating sped up at the end of the race, passed most of the field, and ran the fastest final 200 of anybody, yet that somehow does not constitute a kick.

It is interesting to note that Wheating's 800/mile times are now similar to Ryun at his peak. He is also faster than WIllis in the 800 and Willis has a silver from the last Olympics. Wheating has a couple of years to develop into America's Cram in time for the 1500 final in London.

Dandy Dick wrote:

"Wheating has now run two races in a row in which he's spent the final bend on the outside including the Paris race which he had to go way wide to pass.

It's poor tactics."

One has to laugh at some of the fools who post at LR. Fact is Wheating is a big guy who would be stupid to get caught in lane one when things break open in a race. For a young guy, Wheating has learned quickly and well. He hasn't had the perfect race yet, but he has had a series of very good races, an at this stage of his career that shows good coaching, good judgement, and talent. I see Wheating's performances as the glass at least half full. The poster sees Wheating (and everyone else) as having a nearly half empty glass. Foolish and stupid.

Well then I hope you are laughing at yourself for projecting my thoughts into whatever enters your brain.

In the proper context, I was responding to a post mentioning Wheating's tactics...which even though he ran relatively well in terms of time....were atrocious.

Wheating has a bright future however he'll have to clean up his positioning to advance up a level or two.

greigting wrote:

a) yes Wheating increased his speed at the end, and passed some people, this does not constitute a kick.

....and this doesn't constitute a coherent thought.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

you always seem to defend runners, which is great, but Wheating himself said that he did not run Pre the right way. He did not go when he needed to and as a result he left with something in the tank. He also, as the above poster said, ran in lane 2. I'd love to see him leave it all on the track for once, in his last Euro meet of the year, as per the schedule, by being more aggressive about staying in range of the leaders, drafting and relaxing until the last lap.

And as for Gregson, a tremendous runner who ran 2 seconds slower at Pre.

How many runners have run their PB's and felt they could have given more?

Quiet a few.

A free pass? Let's see, an Olympian, a 1:45 guy, 2 time NCAA Outdoor Champ, 800/1500 NCAA champ, first time in 26 years.

Not because he was the local "Duck Boy."

A combination of up and coming talent, and local gate pull.

EVERY Golden/Diamond league meet has "local attractions" in the meet.

And Wheating proved himself with a large PR, and defeating all the "legit" USA Pro's.

By your reasoning, you would not have wanted Webb in the Pre when he broke Ryun's mile.

You know, they just let the high schooler in on a long shot whim.

Oops, he broke Ryun's record.

Meet directors have some latitude and discretion.

A Duck wrote:

By your reasoning, you would not have wanted Webb in the Pre when he broke Ryun's mile.

You know, they just let the high schooler in on a long shot whim.

Oops, he broke Ryun's record.

Meet directors have some latitude and discretion.

Almost... Pre wasn't a Golden League / Diamond League meet then though was it? Letting locals into the race has been common practise at IAAF GP I and II meets for some time, and I have no problem with that, but Golden League and now Diamond League has always, and should always be, for the absolute cream of our sport. Show me the results / start lists of past Diamond / Golden League meets that have let some locals in for crowd pulling purposes?

Again, yes Wheating had credential.... at 800m, would you expect Duanne Solomn to get a start at a Diamond League mile??

Perhaps I wasn't clear with my comment regarding Kicking.... negative splitting does not constitute a kick? does it? Wheating marginally negatively split his Bowerman Mile, in a field that by and large Positively split. Can you not appreciate the finer difference between passing a fading runner, and out kicking someone? Did Dixon out kick Smith in NY? I don't think so.

Kiprop, Lalou etc are still clearly going away from him over the last 100m

greigting wrote:

Again, yes Wheating had credential.... at 800m, would you expect Duanne Solomn to get a start at a Diamond League mile??

I would expect Joaquim Cruz to start at a Diamond League in Eugene, being the closest viable comparison to Wheating.

Did Fanjanteino Félix deserve to be in the Paris 1500m yesterday, with her 4:07.84 PB before the race? Or Colin McCourt into the Diamond League 1500m at Gateshead with a PB of 3:37.19 at the time, only fractions of a second faster than Wheating's?

When did Solomon run 3:37 or win an NCAA 1500/8 double or help his team out in huge ways in Cross Country? Your logic is quite poor. Wheating and Gregson are both very good, as is Acosta, but your arguments hold no water. If A.J. had been in the big boy mile at Pre then you have a point. He wasn't and he and Gregson ran great races. You have nothing more to say.

jjjjjjjjj wrote: He's had a great year. But to optimize his times at his current fitness and challenge for some wins, he is going to have to get up closer to the front, third, fourth or fifth, prior to the last 200m. At that point the kick will not be as strong but it won't have to be.

Optimize his times? Go out near the front in a race rabbitted in sub 50? Wheating is a great up and coming star, but he's not a 1:41 runner. Only runner who possibly belonged on that pace in that race was Kaki, and he couldn't handle it himself.

Challenge for some wins? All you have to do is get up front earlier? Are you seriously brain dead? Last time i checked winning was about how fast you were, not whether you had 50 seconds of glory before fading. Wheating will challenge for wins in a big race like that when he's improved a bit more. He was able to move up in the last 200 because the others had gone with that pace. If they hadn't gone with the pace he would have been dusted in the last 200. If he had moved up with 400 to go he would have been walking the last 200.

Wheating's first 400m was good. He was right in the middle of things. He went around the first turn after the bell in lane 2, lost some ground, moved inside on the straight, and then ran almost into lane three by the end of the final turn.

He probably gave up a half second just in positioning. If he can learn to run and make one move from a good position he'll do fine.

The idiot that claims that Wheating didn't belong in the Pre mile is just that....an idiot.

greigting wrote:

Show me the results / start lists of past Diamond / Golden League meets that have let some locals in for crowd pulling purposes?

Or, alternately, why don't you go look at the start lists yourself. Sometimes it's more productive to learn for yourself how stupid you are, rather than have others tell you over and over. They're here:

.

I spent two minutes browsing. In Shanghai, I saw that Chinese women came last (2:12) and second-last (2:04 for a PB!) in the 800m, last and second-last in the 100m (11.95 and 11.69), last in the shot (16.75). Their men came last and second-last in the 200m (21.47 and 21.46), second-last in the long jump (7.57), last in the pole vault (5.20), last in the discus (55.76).

In Rome, Italian women came second-last in the TJ (13.89), last in the javelin (57.14), last in the PV (4.20), last in the 400mH (56.06), last in the 100m (11.79). Italian men came second-last in the 200m (20.91), second-last in the LJ (7.57), and last in the discus (56.68).

Then I got bored, but you're welcome to look at the rest.

all good points.... BUT

How many of those events had a "b" or "international" race of comporable or better talent who had travelled across the world to be there??

Getting locals to fill a weak field short on entries is very different from promoting locals from said race ahead of talent already on the ground.

Yes, if you assembled the Bowerman Mile NOW Wheating would easily make the list... this is irellevant.

The fact remains, Wheating as a 3.37 runner got his ticket punched into that field due to factors other than his PR or form.

It was not impartial, it was not a transparent decision, it hurts the Pre Classic.

Noticeably you did not address the obvious, other meet directors put national faves in GL in the past.

Pre is Pre, even when it is GL/DL.

Should a local guy, an Olympian, who's coaches think he is ready to go 3:51 be allowed in a DL meet? Sure, especially when his coach is VERY accurate at predicting his fitness.

The same thing was flung at Fleet, in Seattle, in February...where he promptly ran a 3:57 as a frosh...

greigting wrote:

all good points.... BUT

How many of those events had a "b" or "international" race of comporable or better talent who had travelled across the world to be there??

Getting locals to fill a weak field short on entries is very different from promoting locals from said race ahead of talent already on the ground.

Yes, if you assembled the Bowerman Mile NOW Wheating would easily make the list... this is irellevant.

The fact remains, Wheating as a 3.37 runner got his ticket punched into that field due to factors other than his PR or form.

It was not impartial, it was not a transparent decision, it hurts the Pre Classic.

You are so full of jealousy and anal retentive behavior, you really need a phalanx of therapists.

Meet directors have latitude, when exercised with discretion and when they have a reputation -- all of which happened and turned out to be a fine showing for both Pre and the DL.

"Meet directors have latitude, when exercised with discretion and when they have a reputation -- all of which happened and turned out to be a fine showing for both Pre and the DL."

The race directors showed shit-box discretion by leaving out a guy who nailed a field full of olympians in 3:35 a few weeks earlier. Shit box.

totally agree