Anyone train on the no-plan plan?

Malmo, you must have planned your workouts to some degree, right? You ran interval workouts on the track. How far in advance did you plan those? A few days before, or 30 minutes before?

What do you think about Nicki Parrot?

TheVirginian wrote:

Malmo, you must have planned your workouts to some degree, right? You ran interval workouts on the track. How far in advance did you plan those? A few days before, or 30 minutes before?

Years and years.

malmo wrote:

What do you think about Nicki Parrot?

I'm far from qualified to comment on her music, but otherwise, I sometimes think if more jazz bassists look like that, I might never have picked up a pair of spikes.

This is the way I trained. 8-10 miles a day year round with a longer run on most Sundays in the 12-13 mile range. I used races as speedwork. If I noticed that my training runs were getting faster with the same effort then I usually knew it was time to race seriously. If I raced well then I would string together 5-6 races and when I began to see my times falling off I would race less and just train.

I am not saying this is the best way to train and race. It was just the best way for me.

I really like this thread! I am far from this however, I the idea of it is absolutely fascinating. I think I'm living a compromise between the two. I operate under the schedule I'm given and just run things as hard as is comfortable, at least for steady runs.

malmo wrote:

"No plan" training is a lot like jazz improvisation. You know what key you're playing in, you generally know what the most likely chord progressions are, and you just play.

In running, as in music, many people are just reading from sheet music, and the end result is a flat and uninspired performance. Humans are living, breathing, organic creatures. There's no reason why your training can't be a reflection of your humanity.

I like it.

OrvilleAtkins wrote:

I feel that runners today are too caught up in times, pacing, planning and details. I often ran races to compete and for placement. I wonder if runners today have as much fun as we did.

Yes, feel like I could be having more fun, too.

Thanks for sharing, Orville.

ya man wrote:

yup i'm the same way. in HS i was so mechanical and regimented and time-oriented and i kept a log and everything was so detailed.

now? i just run. i like variety. variety of locations, paces, solo/group, soccer (all game i just run around chasing the ball, such a good workout). i lost my watch, which i'm thankful for. i have no idea what my mileage is, but it's getting larger and larger. i like my long runs to be longer and longer and longer until i can run 100 miles or whatever the human limit is. it's fun, i feel fit and happy.

Yeah, part of it is that more and more I just want to run long every day. I like faster running and workouts but I don't like it when workouts overtire me. I'd rather put more energy into longer runs.

Cheeto Dust wrote: As a life long competitive runner hanging in the sub-elite bubble, not until the past year have I seen the gains I've always targeted. Once I shed the stress of expectations and started to enjoy running, my times melted away all without a structured plan. The flexibility of listening to your body curbs injuries and eases workout/race anxiety issues.

My advice, just try it for a little while, and if you don't like it then just go back to counting tenths of a mile on your Garmin.

Thanks for the advice! Counting the tenths on my garmin (uh, actually, I would never finish a run on a tenth :0) is not working for me. I'm injured right now.

One of the things that I also need to work on is my confidence. Feeling my way around a running week and trusting that I know what to do and how to do it I think will help me feel like I can do what I have to do in a race... if that makes sense. It's just when I set out to do other people's workouts and then fail I feel like I lose confidence.

I **know** I run better when I have no stress nd expectations so I want to extend this to running all-around and still be in great shape and get PRs.

Most people do this ~3 months of the year. It is called base training.

malmo wrote:

frozen north wrote:

Anyone that plans races ever not make a race cycle plan or even daily plan and just go out and just run whatever you feel like on the given day? Workouts made up on the spot? Mileage not counted up until the end of the week? Running fast or long when you feel up to it and cutting the run short if you feel like it?

Always have.

Though I am no malmo, I have been doing this for many years now. Once you learn the basics, it becomes ingrained after a while, three or four hard runs each week, the rest is easy. One of those hard runs should be longer than any other and all of the hard runs should be tailored to the nature of your next goal race. As long as you are not doing too many hard runs in a row and are recovering well, you should be fine. This is not rocket surgery, as laid out in Once a Runner, this is really simple stuff. There are no secrets or shortcuts and what you do in any given day or week or even month is really of little consequence, it is progressing over many months and years that makes the real difference. Consistency is the first key (the next being specificity) and the greatest consistency should become routine in very little time, as routine as anything else that plays an important role in your life.

frozen north wrote:

Thanks for the advice! Counting the tenths on my garmin (uh, actually, I would never finish a run on a tenth :0) is not working for me. I'm injured right now.

One of the things that I also need to work on is my confidence. Feeling my way around a running week and trusting that I know what to do and how to do it I think will help me feel like I can do what I have to do in a race... if that makes sense. It's just when I set out to do other people's workouts and then fail I feel like I lose confidence.

I **know** I run better when I have no stress nd expectations so I want to extend this to running all-around and still be in great shape and get PRs.

Avoiding the track is a helpful method. 3-8mi tempo runs, fartlek around 30min, hard hills are all great subs for any technical track work. Just don't plan them far out in advance, and be willing to change day of if you feel accordingly. A consistent long run in 90-120min range, pace dictated by how you feel, is important. It will give you the confidence, after a few weeks of bench marking. I never do anyone else's workout but always welcome people to mine. Am I a dick? Probably, but other people's training rarely fits my mold.

Once you get away from the track, you won't freak out about a few seconds here and there, because of hills/terrain. This advice is after I PR'd in numerous track events off zero track workouts (all road), when old PR's came from heavy interval training.

2 words...Mark Nenow

I tried a pretty unstructured method this winter. I did about 100 miles per week just running 7-8 miles at whatever pace I wanted twice per day. Some days I'd do half the run at sub-6's, other days I'd be doing 7+. About twice a week I'd do a basic hill workout/fartlek/20-40 minute tempo and a longish run most weeks. I've set some big PR's in the ensuing months.

malmo wrote:

"No plan" training is a lot like jazz improvisation. You know what key you're playing in, you generally know what the most likely chord progressions are, and you just play.

In running, as in music, many people are just reading from sheet music, and the end result is a flat and uninspired performance. Humans are living, breathing, organic creatures. There's no reason why your training can't be a reflection of your humanity.

I love this analogy (no surprise, of course)!

To the original question....

yes, most high school coaches, some college coaches and most fun runners.

Mrs. M wrote:

I love this analogy (no surprise, of course)!

No surprise ma'am.

I've long thought about quitting my current training (1 day each of intervals, threshold, and long run, EZ the other days) and just run 10 miles a day (give or take a few miles), every single day. Alarm goes off, throw on my running clothes, and boom, out the door to run however I feel.

Why haven't I done this? I guess I'm too concerned I'll miss hitting system such as specific-endurance, speedwork, threshold. How the hell do you know if you're working these systems properly? If you're feeling like a racehorse one day, how do you determine if it's best to do a fartlek or an hour hard running? Questions, questions...