Serious Question: Israel

"Atually Hitler et al were Zionists."

I don't normally use information sources like white power websites to inform myself on these topics. Disregarding the fact that this post and many of the posts in regard to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict are offensive, this is a completely illogical argument. Just to cover all my bases...Hitler et al did indeed hatch a plan to send Jews to Madagascar, but this was not done and six million Jews + six million other undesirable groups were exterminated instead. If I was going to argue against Israel, I would not make the ridiculous arguments about the Jew Media, etc...Rupert Murdoch is not Jewish for example or some mystical Jewish lobby. The biggest problem perpetrated by Israel is the development of settlements outside its borders. It is straight in your face illegal. Unfortunately, the Palestinians manage to be run by politicians representing terrorism and corruption, added to the fact no one bothers to help them. It is ridiculous to come on a public forum and spew idiocy, discuss the issue reasonably or get the hell of the forum.

it's not just the pro-zionists jews in the US to blame, it's the damned evangelical republicans. they are sure that the jews must control those lands in order for jesus to come back someday, so they of course do everything they can to defend israel (they don't really give a damn about the "heathen" jews themselves, but they are looking out for their own eternal soul). also, they hate the arabs, so all in all in makes it really easy for them to support israel on every contentious issue. notice all the repubs that came out attacking obama and the white house for daring to be annoyed at Israel and it's slap at the the US when Israel announced new settlements right as Biden was visiting??

That punk Ben Netanyahu call axlerod and Rahm E. "self-hating jews" !? I've always detested Netanyahu. No wonder right wingers in this country like him so much. They'd love to see him drop several nukes on Iran, and then be glad to let us (USA) clean up the mess.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098853.html

Atually Hitler et al were Zionists. They were all for removing the Jews from Germany and sending them off to Palestine.

Himmler in particular worked closely with the World Zionist Organization to get many Jews to Palestine.[/quote]

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you know, Uncle B, you can work on developing some human decency. Really. Spend the next year trying to do something kind each and every day. You may just be a bad person and not know it.

Who lived there 1000 years ago is irrelevant. What's important is that Israel is there now, and Palestinians are there now. We're not about to return the United States to native american tribes, nor should we.

Israel has held almost all of the cards since the Palestinians made the miscalculation of rejecting the UN partition plan in 1947, and their loss in the ensuing civil war, and the wars that followed. They have a right to exist, and they don't have to accept any terms they choose not to accept. However, peaceful relations with their neighbors is in their best interest. Building of Israeli settlements in Palestinian lands diminishes the credibility of its commitment to peace, as does Palestinian support for groups firing missiles into civilian areas of Israel and public declarations of support for destruction of the state of Israel.

As long as the two sides cater to their own extremists, there can be no peace nor any real progress towards peace.

It doesn’t matter what the average Yank in the street thinks - real power lies in the perception of power, and no organisation in Washington is perceived to wield more power than AIPAC, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee.

For proof, look no further than January 2009, when most of the rest of the world was horrified at the Israeli offensive in Gaza.

At that moment the US House of Representatives, by a vote of 390 to five, chose to blame the entire crisis on Hamas.

Now the lobby is working to defuse the present row, naturally on Israel's terms.

First AIPAC expressed its "serious concern" at events, reminding (or perhaps warning) of the "vast bipartisan support in Congress and the American people" for the US/Israeli relationship.

Then the Israeli ambassador here issued a statement claiming he had been "flagrantly misquoted" in reports saying he had warned his staff of the worst crisis in 35 years between the two countries.

By Tuesday evening Ms Clinton herself, who last week was accusing Mr Netanhayu of insulting the US, poured further oil on the already quietening waters: "I don't buy the notion of a crisis."

And there we have it.

The settlements in East Jerusalem will go ahead whatever the US thinks. The proximity talks, even if they do proceed, are doomed in advance.

And next week AIPAC holds here what it bills as the largest policy conference in its history.

The Israeli Prime Minister will be in town to address it, so will Ms Clinton.

Will President Obama be there as well? - he might as well be present to receive his orders.

.

I know you don't want to hear it, but Himmler had many dealings with the Zionists. This is just a fact. Not one the Zionists like to dwell on, sure, and not one you wull find in the typical US history book, but it is not something that any historian denies.

And I won't even call you any names

uiop wrote:

Atually Hitler et al were Zionists. They were all for removing the Jews from Germany and sending them off to Palestine.

Himmler in particular worked closely with the World Zionist Organization to get many Jews to Palestine.

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you know, Uncle B, you can work on developing some human decency. Really. Spend the next year trying to do something kind each and every day. You may just be a bad person and not know it.[/quote].

Does that mean you do not believe that Himmler had extensive dealings with the Zionists? Or just that you would rather these not be mentioned?

Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man,

His enemies say he’s on their land.

They got him outnumbered about a million to one,

He got no place to escape to, no place to run.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,

He’s criticized and condemned for being alive.

He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin,

He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,

He’s wandered the earth an exiled man.

Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,

He’s always on trial for just being born.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,

Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.

Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.

The bombs were meant for him.

He was supposed to feel bad.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim

That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him,

’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back

And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.

What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love.

He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied

But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,

They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.

Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly.

To hurt one they would weep.

They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone,

Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.

He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,

In bed with nobody, under no one’s command.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,

No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.

He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,

Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

What’s anybody indebted to him for?

Nothin’, they say.

He just likes to cause war.

Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,

They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.

He’s the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?

Does he change the course of rivers?

Does he pollute the moon and stars?

Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,

Running out the clock, time standing still,

Neighborhood bully.

they should combine to form palestein

The long term view which is the most commonly heard around the world is that there is no Israel per se in Palestine, rather there is a temporary U.S. Zionist Occupation regime presently terrorizing Palestine and the general Middle east region. Palestine itself is a geographic term as opposed to a race or tribe. Palestine is synonymous with Oregon, simply a place on the planet earth. The people of Palestine have always been Semitic, well, at least for *only* the last 10,000 years. Romans, Greeks, Ottomans, Mongols, Persians have also invaded Palestine. The current Zionist regime was propped up by Truman in 1947 and was never recognized by the local population. The world condemns the Zionists for having invented out of thin air a separate race of human beings called Jews, then using hate filled rhetoric to segregate Palestine economically, geographically, and socially, implementing an apartheid class system centered around religious affiliation. The world thinks of Israel like we thought of Formosa, Sakhalin, and Korea in the 1920s, then occupied by Imperial Japan. Israel is a temporary U.S. occupation which will eventually be ousted and returned back to the legacy Semitic inhabitants.

The American public will never get unbiased reporting on the Palestine situation, indeed, any area of the world where Israel’s vital interests are concerned.

It must surely be an indisputable fact, that, the article below suggests 96% of the worlds - I would suggest about 95% of the US media - is owned and controlled by Jews.

An astonishing domination and even Geobbels in his prime would have been proud of that statistic.

I admit to being biased myself as one of my uncles, who was in the second unit to arrive at Belsen concentration camp in 45 and ‘liberated’ the incarcerated Jews - was rewarded for his labours, murdered by Jewish terrorists while just trying to keep the peace between the Jews and the local Palestinians in 47.

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/six-jewish-companies-own-96-of-the-worlds-media/

UncleB wrote:

uiop wrote:

Atually Hitler et al were Zionists. They were all for removing the Jews from Germany and sending them off to Palestine.

Himmler in particular worked closely with the World Zionist Organization to get many Jews to Palestine.

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you know, Uncle B, you can work on developing some human decency. Really. Spend the next year trying to do something kind each and every day. You may just be a bad person and not know it.

Does that mean you do not believe that Himmler had extensive dealings with the Zionists? Or just that you would rather these not be mentioned?[/quote]

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By trying to develop human decency, you could stop posting half truths on message boards that absolve mass murderers. Then you could go on to charitable acts.

The transfer agreement does not make the Nazis zionists and you very well know that. It was the act of a desperate 1-year old Nazi government that was on the brink of being crushed by a boycott. The Nazis had yet to start killing, so they weren't clearly the evil that you seem so willing to defend and even cheer on. Should the Jews have stopped the boycott? No, but few could have guessed what the nazis would turn into.

So stop with you half truths - try going for the full truth! You might save your soul.

uiop wrote:

So stop with you half truths - try going for the full truth! You might save your soul.

Too bad your soul was damned 2000 years ago when your people crucified Jesus.

Well..... wrote:

Building of Israeli settlements in Palestinian lands diminishes the credibility of its commitment to peace,

I don't understand this whole thing about settlements. Why are they immoral and land inside the green line is not immoral? What is the difference?

In 1947 there were Jewish and arab communities throughout the entire region from the Jordan to the Mediteranean. At that point there was no moral difference between Gush Etzion (a Jewish community that is now beyond the Green line) and Tel Aviv (a Jewish community now within the Green line). They were all Jewish communities in British Mandatory Palestine.

The UN approved a plan for the Jews to get some of the land and the arabs to get other parts (not exactly along the current green line). The Jews accepted the plan and the arabs rejected it and responded with gureilla warfare. They drove out the Jews from communites like Gush Etzion.

Then in 1948 arab countries like Jordan joined the war after Israel declared independence. The armistace line became the green line even though it was meant as just an armistace line and not international borders. The Jordanians then occupied the West Bank. Never was the West Bank made a country for the Palestinians.

In 1967 the Jordanains planned a war of extermination against Israel and ended up losing the West Bank to the Israelis who beat them fair and square. The Palestinians were lost in the middle of this fight. They, as they always have been, were not interested in a state and continued to be the sworn enemies of the Jews with a never ending stance of total extermination that continues to this day.

Israel has on many occasions tried to give the West Bank to the Palestininas even though it was never before a Palestinian state (see Camp David 2000). The Palestininas always refuse because they will not be happy unless they have the entire land.

So why is building in Gush Etzion (a Jewish community since the 1920s) immoral just because Jordan occupied it for 19 years? Why is building in East Jerusalem (a continuos Jewish community for 3000 years and a place that has had a Jewish majority for hundreds of years) immoral just because Jordan occupied it for 19 years?

The Palestinians need a state. This is indisputible. But basing the borders on the green line is completly arbitrary. Why should Israel lose Gush Etziyon and keep Uhm al Fahem (an Arab community 1 kilometer within the Israeli side of the green line)? Just because that was the armistace line with Jordan in 1948? Why should the Palestinians keep the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem (where Jews have lived for millenia) and not get Sakhnin (an arab town on the Israel side of the Green line)?

Basing borders on the 1947 armistace line is arbitrary. Why is the West Bank Palestinian land and "Israel" is Israeli land?

Settelments aren't the problem. The problem is that the Palestinians want nothing less than the entire land. And they are willing to murder until they achieve it.

U.S. Nazi-Zionists are foreign occupiers in Palestine and have no basis nor authority to negotiate borders. Palestine is one land for all people, Semitics, Caucasians from Persia and Turkey, Africans from Egypt and Ethiopia, Chinese, etc. There can only be one Palestine for everyone. A U.S. style constitution with civil and human rights for all in Palestine is the only solution possible.

We should just nuke the whole Middle East.

uiop wrote:

UncleB wrote:

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you know, Uncle B, you can work on developing some human decency. Really. Spend the next year trying to do something kind each and every day. You may just be a bad person and not know it.

.

Does that mean you do not believe that Himmler had extensive dealings with the Zionists? Or just that you would rather these not be mentioned?

======================================

By trying to develop human decency, you could stop posting half truths on message boards that absolve mass murderers. Then you could go on to charitable acts.

The transfer agreement does not make the Nazis zionists and you very well know that. It was the act of a desperate 1-year old Nazi government that was on the brink of being crushed by a boycott. The Nazis had yet to start killing, so they weren't clearly the evil that you seem so willing to defend and even cheer on. Should the Jews have stopped the boycott? No, but few could have guessed what the nazis would turn into.

So stop with you half truths - try going for the full truth! You might save your soul.[/quote]

How were the Nazis NOT Zionists? They shared the same goal as the Zionists -- moving the European Jews to Palestine. And, by the way, the killing of the Jews had begun well before Himmler and the Zionists were cutting their deals.

Dylan's real name is Zimmerman.

Irony.

Let's me clarify this once and for all. Most Jews are not National Zionists, but most Jews do believe in Zionism. To have Zionism does not mean you have to slaughter all your own identical, mirror-image people with the same DNA, just for having a belief in Allah as the National Zionists love to do. Zionism is a state of mind. You have pockets of Zionism in the U.S. coexisting under the U.S. Constitution. France, Great Britain, Holland, Italy, Germany, etc. also has strong Zionist communities. In short, Zionism is not Israel, Israel is National Zionism. Hope this helps.