For the first time in my life I didn't do upper body weights regularly (for the duration of the summer) and I lost about 9lbs of muscle mass, mostly upper body. (I went from 144'b to 135lb). If I'm trying to maximize my track performance (middle distance, senior year college) should I build back the muscle, or stay scrawny?
Do elites (Bekele, Gherrouj, Lagat et al.) do upper body weights? Do you need to lift weights to power your arms down the homestretch?
just take dat dere cell tech
elites do upper body weights
It's mostly your legs on the homestretch, chief. I'd skip the weights and run more.
Doing some strength work can only help but I personally would rather be 9lbs lighter. I would not suggest trying to put all the weight back on but do some basic exercises like push-ups and pull-ups.
just my $.02
Haji wrote:
Doing some strength work can only help but I personally would rather be 9lbs lighter. I would not suggest trying to put all the weight back on but do some basic exercises like push-ups and pull-ups.
just my $.02
Agreed. Do some body weight work to keep some strength, but not to the point of adding bulk.
How do you know it was all muscle and not some fat? water? glycogen storage?
Just saying, unless you know your exact bf then and now it's hard to make an exact measurment.
The Morroccans, especially El Guerrouj, did weight training:
http://www.tfcoach.com/viewtopic.php?t=9
I remember an article touting Geb's circuit program in the gym some years ago.
Steve Spence won the Bronze in the World Champs Marathon in '92 and he did some pretty heavy lifting for the time (3 sets of 10).
Alan
Even the Mammoth Group does upper body workouts - med ball stuff, etc.
Thanks for the input.
So the consensus here is that the strength is still important. Does that mean I should stick to light weights with more repetitions? In the past I was doing several sets of 6-8 for each muscle group. Should I be doing 10-15 reps, 15-20 per set?
In response to Alan, it's possible that some of it could be fat, but most of it had to be upper body muscle since I physically look different, and everyone I meet makes a comment on how skinnier my upper body looks.
(Also, in the Gherrouj link, he's pretty much doing all lower weights. I still do stuff like that, but more specific to my team's assigned weight program.)
If you want to strength train...then focus on strength. High volume high rep routines is what leads to muscle mass.
Do 1 warmup set, 1 work set of 5 reps for the following once a week:
Squat
DB Bench
RDL
DB Row
*DB Thruster
*Pullup or Kipping Pullup
*Optional. They are more metabolic/powerful. Good way to finish the workout as you'll produce lots of lactate and increase anabolic hormones at the end of the workout that will lend to better recovery.
After 6-8 weeks then you can go into more of a specific program focusing on your own strengths and weakness, single leg movements, plyos, etc.
Alan
Low weight high rep never lead to much muscle mass in me. What I mean is that if I did 100 reps of 40 lb curls or sets of 50 push ups or sets of 50 sit ups, I never saw any growth in muscle mass while running.
I have seen some people put on muscle mass in upper body when lifting and it never seemed to help them to run any faster. I suspect that they put on the mass by lifting hard, that is, to near muscle max or exhaustion and probably increased caloric intake at the same time.
I'm not saying that lifting isn't a plus for most runners, I think that it is, but it seems to me that it's more a process of eliminating weakness rather than developing big strength.
In other words, if a person can't squat his own body weight pretty comfortably a dozen times, then maybe he's functionally weak. But the relevance of squatting three times body weight to speed over 800/1500/5k and such seems doubtful to me. (OK, sprinting is another story: that's where power output is king).
Thoughts?
Alan has said it before: in order to gain significant muscle mass, a large quantity of calories must be consumed. So if youre running an hour a day and not over eating, then I doubt much muscle mass will be gained.
There are people meant to be good runners. They people can do an intense strength training session and no gain muscle mass no matter what they do.
If you're gaining mass on 2 sets of 5 reps without consuming mass quantities of calories then you probably shouldn't be running.
I meant to say HIGH intensity, HIGH volume work is what leads to optimal gains in muscle mass 3-5 sets, 8-12 reps, that sort of stuff. I just mistyped.
50 pushups, 1000 situps, 200 pullups and other such lunacy that most runners do does nothing more than lead to fatigue. Then the runner gets discouraged and stops strength training all today. Those high volume routines, low weight routines DO NOT increase strength.
You CAN increase strength without increasining size. This is what you want. SRENGTH without SIZE. The key is that it is a balancing act with your other training. If you're putting in 100-150 miles a week it's doubtful you have much in the way of energy to lift. So, just 30 minutes a week. If you're a regular letsrunner putting in 50-70 miles a week you could easily hit the gym twice a week for 30-45 minutes. The gains in strength will translate to you being a faster runner AND the gains in testosterone production will translate into better recovery.
Alan
putting a duration on lifting time is kind of vague isnt it?
shouldnt you plan the workouts and lifts instead of how long you're going to be there?
It's just a guideline. Also keeps you from taking too long.
6 exercises, 2 sets, 5 reps, 120s between sets. Should take about 30 minutes. Add in warmup and you've got about 40.
Studies have also shown that lifting sessions more than 50-60 minutes may reduce testosterone....the opposite result you want.
Alan
I think it's a good idea to some upper body work. I think you should focus on the core muscles a lot too, assuming you don't consider that upper body. Running isn't just about the legs.
Although I'm a marathoner, personally I find that upper body weights help more with running performance than core exercises ever did. Also, I find a correlation between strength gains (~going up in weight, or being able to do more reps) and fitness gains with running (~drop time in workouts/races). It may be that as your arms get stronger, they get more efficient, and that correlates to faster, more efficient running. I try to use heavy weights (10-12 reps), doing the running arm motion w/ 10 lb. wts. (2 x 45 reps), plus doing "body weight" exercises (push-ups, tricep dips, sometimes pullups). I don't think the focus should be on gaining "arm mass" but on being toned/strong.
No FAm got that chest from eating Cheetos !
I used to do lots of pullups, bench press, inclined press, deadlifts (RDLs etc), and I never really FELT like I had a lot of upper body mass. We seem to do a lot of lifting on my team, and while I was never super gung-ho, I seem to build muscle very quickly for a distance runner.
But I still would get beat sometimes by guys who had zero arm muscle tone, and I just wondered how much it mattered. By virtue of not having access to a weight room this summer, I somehow dropped significant weight, and I'm wondering if maybe it was for the better. How much arm "strength" do you even need in a 1500m?
Maybe the better question is, at 5'8", is 135lbs too much weight for a runner trying to go low 4:0X?
No way, 5'8 135 isn't that big at all...1.985 lbs/inch thats about on target with most distance builds.
I was 6' 170 last year, probably too muscular and ran 4:13 1500, now I'm sitting at 154 and its helped my longer races tremendously. Obviously cannot comment on the shorter stuff though.