finnishguy wrote:
Blowing.Rock Master wrote:However, no system rivals capitalism for wealth creation.
or environment destruction.
This statement is the most ignorant I have read in years. Go to China or Eastern Europe or Africa and observe the environmental devastation wrought by left wing tyrants.
They kill, despoil and enslave.
We should return to feudalism and the Manor system.
of course that's heavily dependant on religion (you're a peasent because that's what God chose for you- accepting your lot is the right thing to do or you'll go to hell) so we need everyone to forget science.
dmb wrote:
jorvack wrote:However, no system rivals capitalism for wealth creation.
for some, exploitation for the majority.
So regular schmoes like you and me have access to goods and services that our great-grandfathers could hardly have imagined and we're being exploited?
grow a set.[/quote]
I believe he was saying that exploitation of the majority (think King Leopold and the Congo) can create huge amounts of wealth for some people. But now that you mention it, yes, we are being exploited. Do you really think Bush or Obama made all those campaign promises for reasons other than votes? And what about companies that make unnecessary products, then convince people that they need those products? Neosporin is a great example. Applying it without first cleaning the wound does not prevent infection, and applying it after cleaning the wound thoroughly is pointless because the chance of infection is so low already. And they even have ads that imply that spraying some antibiotics on a scrape is just as good as cleaning all the dirt out with soap and water.
double think wrote:
Capitalism is successful?
It gave you this message board.
Belgium and the Congo is an example of Feudalism because it involves slavery. You can't have Capitalism without free exchange of goods, services, and labor. If you freely enter into a non-fraudulent exchange how have you been exploited? The Neosporin example you gave involves someone using the product incorrectly, that doesn't imply the product doesn't work or is useless.
Blowing.Rock Master wrote:
However, no system rivals capitalism for wealth creation.
Please - name one truly capitalist system operating in the world today. You can't because it doesn't exist. All the major economies are mixed systems - using some open market ideas and some regulation/socialism.
The question of the op doesn't make any sense - because it assumes that we live in a truly capitalistic system. We don't.
Just because a system is regulated doesn't mean it's not a Capitalist system. As I stated earlier, Capitalism involves free exchange. The vast majority of transactions you are involved in as an American, European, or Japanese are voluntary. If these aren't Capitalist economies than what are they?
Hunter gathering in N America was extremely succesful for the native peoples for over 11,000 years.
No poverty, no concept of work.
No poverty? I think starving to death when you can't find food qualifies as poverty. I think dying at a young age because theres no medical care qualifies as poverty.
No concept of work? How easy do you think it is to hunt when your most advanced weapon is a bow and arrow? How easy is it to create a shelter from a dead animal when your most advanced tool is a sharp rock? How easy is it to dig up roots when your only tool is a stick?
Fattty R. Belt Buckle wrote:
I am looking at hundreds of years ... not short-term
The debate over capitalism and democracy is pretty much over. Democracy is the only legitimate political system and capitalism the only legitimate economic system.
The debate now centers on how much the political system should regulate the economic system. As the latest sub-prime melt down shows, maybe a little more would be good.
Blowing.Rock Master wrote:
Just because a system is regulated doesn't mean it's not a Capitalist system. As I stated earlier, Capitalism involves free exchange. The vast majority of transactions you are involved in as an American, European, or Japanese are voluntary. If these aren't Capitalist economies than what are they?
if the transaction is the only way to survive it's not voluntary.
Uncle B wrote:
Hunter gathering in N America was extremely succesful for the native peoples for over 11,000 years.
No poverty, no concept of work.
That is it, exactly.
The people worked for themselves and their family, which is how it should be for all people.
All major governments are tyranny. We are still operating in a feudal system, where everyone works for more than 1/2 the year just to pay homage and taxes to the government puppets, which are run by nevarious rich families.
I'd like to see the entire world return and evolve to a system that works for everyone, rather than the current type that is run by a few, at the expense of everyone else.
Uncle B wrote:
Hunter gathering in N America was extremely succesful for the native peoples for over 11,000 years.
No poverty, no concept of work.
you didnt think this answer out very well.
you get an F
J.R. wrote:
Uncle B wrote:Hunter gathering in N America was extremely succesful for the native peoples for over 11,000 years.
No poverty, no concept of work.
That is it, exactly.
The people worked for themselves and their family, which is how it should be for all people.
All major governments are tyranny. We are still operating in a feudal system, where everyone works for more than 1/2 the year just to pay homage and taxes to the government puppets, which are run by nevarious rich families.
I'd like to see the entire world return and evolve to a system that works for everyone, rather than the current type that is run by a few, at the expense of everyone else.
No one is stopping you from heading off into the wild to live the hunter/gatherer life. Unplug that computer and get after it.
What was the life expectancy of people in the hunter/gatherer age anyway?
Blowing.Rock Master wrote:
Just because a system is regulated doesn't mean it's not a Capitalist system. As I stated earlier, Capitalism involves free exchange. The vast majority of transactions you are involved in as an American, European, or Japanese are voluntary. If these aren't Capitalist economies than what are they?
Last I heard, most Americans believe that any government involvement in health care is "socialism" or "communism."
By this standard, Medicare is a socialist plot and the only capitalist societies are places like the Congo...
The longevity of a particular political system is not necessarily a measurement of the desirability of that system. Longevity can often be a measurement of the efficiency of brutality than popular will.
Also, ideal political systems are very vulnerable to oppression and force because they do not allocate as many resources to defense and security. For example, the Spanish Anarchists set up one of the few mondern examples of anarcho-syndicalism. But they were easily crushed by Franco's brutality. Likewise, Ang San Suu Kyi's fledgling democratic government in Burma was easily dismantled by the military. The Spanish Anarchists and Suu Kyi would have never been able to win the consent of the people by promising to shifting major amounts of scarce resources to defense and security.
What transaction would that be?
4runner wrote:
Blowing.Rock Master wrote:Just because a system is regulated doesn't mean it's not a Capitalist system. As I stated earlier, Capitalism involves free exchange. The vast majority of transactions you are involved in as an American, European, or Japanese are voluntary. If these aren't Capitalist economies than what are they?
Last I heard, most Americans believe that any government involvement in health care is "socialism" or "communism."
By this standard, Medicare is a socialist plot and the only capitalist societies are places like the Congo...
Do I really need to dignify this ridiculous false dichotomy with an answer?
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Capitalism relies on millions of people being poor to succeed.
This appears to be true for all systems (apart from tribal systems which only really work with very small groups of people).
Animals never had a war, who's the real animal?
what I think wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:Capitalism relies on millions of people being poor to succeed.
This appears to be true for all systems (apart from tribal systems which only really work with very small groups of people).
Animals never had a war, who's the real animal?
Animals kill other animals for food. They also sometimes kill their young. Many don't live very long. They can't think abstractly and figure out how to avoid becoming extinct. They often smell. Many species are quite ugly.