I think that if he had raced on the track for the last 3 years, we would have seen a progression to this time, making it less suspicious. It's not like he went from 13:16 to 12:56 in a year. How long has it been since he's run a good 5k? Focused on the track? It's been a 3-4 year progression from 13:16 to 12:56. At his age, that is believable.
I wanna see sub 27 now. Maybe he'll step up and own the Jesus-freak in 2011 & 2012.
-STS
Tommy2Nutts wrote:
I don't know what to make of this and it would be unfair to accuse him of doping.
But I will say this: if anyone else outside of the US made such a huge reduction in time in their 5k, people would be all over this in a very negative light.
Thats all I'm saying....
It has already been posted, but you want to look up Bekele's progression?
Ritz took of 26 seconds for 5K over 8 years in which injury and marathoning took up the bulk of the latter half.
Geb went from 13:36 to 13:03 in a year and 27:15 to 26:43 in a year. That doesn't mean he's dirty but he was focussing on the track and racing europe as a circuit. Very different from Ritz who hasn't had the opportunities for 5K PRs. Had he approached it like Teg over the last 3 years he'd becoming from 13:0X and that is no stretch at all.
I have no idea whether Ritz is doping or not. I just don't think the 'he's a nice, sincere, genuine guy' defense is very good. Otherwise nice people dope. That's all.
The Vindicator wrote:
There's nothing suspicious about it. They're just leveling the playing field...
palabra.
Very well put, consider his lack of focus on the shorter distances and rhe mountain of a base he built and then going to AlSal who says give the marathon a break and let's run fast again and now we have it. Honestly if Teg is 13:04 and look at his credentials then Ritz is what??????
so here is the litmus test - Drugged athletes that suddenly make a huge jump stay at that new level.
undrugged who have a once in a life time race don't replicate it. so if ritz starts banging out 12:55/56s consistently we know it dirty. however, i suspect him to be more like webb (3:46), and the others who have made those huge jumps at this stage in his career to return to reality. the stars don't align every race.
He ran 13:26 as a freshman in college.
Why is it so surprising that a guy whose HS and college achievements were similar if not superior to Kennedy's. who's been on a couple of Olympic teams, who's enjoying his longest stint without injury in years, and who benefits from all the developments in running in the last 13 years - which even includes better shoes and better tracks - can beat Kennedy's time by just two seconds?
That is ridiculous. Once you make a break through it is much easier to run close to that time again.
truther wrote:
so here is the litmus test - Drugged athletes that suddenly make a huge jump stay at that new level.
undrugged who have a once in a life time race don't replicate it. so if ritz starts banging out 12:55/56s consistently we know it dirty. however, i suspect him to be more like webb (3:46), and the others who have made those huge jumps at this stage in his career to return to reality. the stars don't align every race.
there are plenty of European runners who have been 13:2x guys, dropped a 13:0x, and the resumed 13:2x running.
The whispering campaigns are infamous.
Why is it so outlandish to wonder the same about another runner who has done THE EXACT SAME THING?
What makes one athlete so much more, "moral" and "honest" than any other?
Americans are mostly naive, jingoistic little lambs.
This was the first real outlier for Dathan which indicated to me he would break 27:00 if he stayed healthy. I believe Bob Kennedy and Todd Williams had the top two previous mark--tied at 15:08.
2000 Foot Locker Midwest Cross Country Championships - Boys
Boys Seeded Race
University of Wisconsin - Parkside 5000 meters 35øF with a light wind
Individual Results
Place Number Name Grade Hometown Time
1 1 Dathan Ritzenhein 12 Rockford, MI 14:35
Man, it's f***ing great to have an American distance runner dropping something fast enough to get the drug aspersions cast in earnest again!
Also, wasn't BK's 12:58 comparatively closer to the record at the time?
sexy time smith wrote:
It's not like he went from 13:16 to 12:56 in a year.-STS
No, he went from 27:58 to 12:56 in a month and a half.
The world has hardly ever seen anything like this. And don't compare him to an 18-year old Bekele running internationally for the first time. That is just rediculum. To not be suspicious of this performance would just be plain ignorant.
Hang on - according to you lot the EA's time were all slowing the testing for EPO had improved. Endless posts on how the times were faster in the late 90's
If they were still running fast what was that ah yes the old IAAF conspiracy- remember part of this was American's were not alowed to take EPO
Now an American runs fast and the reason - EPO -that naughty Sal has been sprinkling Ritz's cornflakes with it in the morning!
I do feel sorry for Ritz's old coach because he has not improved 20 seconds in 6 weeks! But he Al might have polished the stone
That 10km in tough conditions in the WC showed Ritz was in great shape. Off his middle distance and 5km times I never thought Ritz would be the US runner to crack 13
One thing did stand out in the Ritz interview on his recent training 'those interval sessions at altitude'
Watch the race though, don't overestimate the coach, at the end of the day we are just some old git holding the watch. Did you see the way Ritz ran - he was running like a man possessed. HE ran sub 13 nobody else. He has knocked the wall down and there a few other US runners right behind him who can go right through there with him (and maybe our Mo!)
Um, didn't he run 27:38 5 years ago? Perhaps I'm missing your sarcasm.
Nikki? wrote:
sexy time smith wrote:It's not like he went from 13:16 to 12:56 in a year.-STS
No, he went from 27:58 to 12:56 in a month and a half.
The world has hardly ever seen anything like this. And don't compare him to an 18-year old Bekele running internationally for the first time. That is just rediculum. To not be suspicious of this performance would just be plain ignorant.
truther wrote:
so here is the litmus test - Drugged athletes that suddenly make a huge jump stay at that new level.
undrugged who have a once in a life time race don't replicate it. so if ritz starts banging out 12:55/56s consistently we know it dirty. however, i suspect him to be more like webb (3:46), and the others who have made those huge jumps at this stage in his career to return to reality. the stars don't align every race.
That is so f***ing stupid. Steve Scott? Deena Kastor? Bob Kennedy? All of them competed on a very high level with repeated top level performances.
Nikki? wrote:
sexy time smith wrote:It's not like he went from 13:16 to 12:56 in a year.-STS
No, he went from 27:58 to 12:56 in a month and a half.
The world has hardly ever seen anything like this. And don't compare him to an 18-year old Bekele running internationally for the first time. That is just rediculum. To not be suspicious of this performance would just be plain ignorant.
You're plain ignorant. I redicule you, too.
Come off a major marathon and you'll have a sharp drop towards track bests. Paula Radcliffe did the same thing in 2002: run London and then European or Commonwealth records at 3000m, 5000m and 10000m.
on the runs wrote:
Come off a major marathon and you'll have a sharp drop towards track bests. Paula Radcliffe did the same thing in 2002: run London and then European or Commonwealth records at 3000m, 5000m and 10000m.
Bringing up Radcliff is nearly a laugh. I suppose you also think a 34-year old Kelly Holmes was clean? Ha.
on the runs wrote:
Steve Scott? Deena Kastor? Bob Kennedy? All of them competed on a very high level with repeated top level performances.
....and you are SURE....they never EVER used ANY PEDs....right?