Is it easier to run a 4-minute mile on the treadmill?

Pacers and faster runners...... wrote:

pokey the horse wrote:

Is it easier than what, running it on the track? Yes, as it's like running with a 15 mph tailwind.

Unless you are running behind other runners on the track. Add the fact that if there is some wind and nobody is behind you, part of the lap will be EASIER than on a treadmill as the wind is pushing you.

It's possible the treadmill is MORE difficult.

No chance. Always easier on a treadmill.

When you're drafting you get about 30% savings. Wind resistance goes with the cube, so lets say at 1mph you have one unit of wind resistance, then at 15mph you have 15*15*15= 3,375 units of wind resistance.

Let's ignore turns and just look at straights. Let's say wind is strong at 20mph. That means running into the wind you have 42,875 units of resistance (35x35x35), with the 35 coming from 20mph headwind, but need to travel 15mph into it for net 35 mph wind. However, you'll have pacer in front so you face 30% less giving 42,875 * .7 = 30,012 units of resistance into the wind

Now with the wind effective speed will be -20 + 15 = -5. So effective units of resistance are -125 units of wind resistance.

Combining both straights, the net units of resistance experienced would be 29,887 units of resistance. Compared to 0 units on the treadmill. If a pacer in front completely eliminated wind resistance, or reduced it drastically this could come out in favor of the track runner. I.e. perhaps if you had a semi going around the track you might come close to being advantaged over a treadmill on a windy day.

Bottom line is treadmill is always faster than track, assuming accurate treadmill calibration so belt speed of 15mph is actually 15mph and not 14mph or 16mph.

LM wrote:

When you're drafting you get about 30% savings. .

Did you pull that out of your backside or can you direct me to some studies that show that is true?

Are you saying that if you are drafting in a 20 mph wind that it still feels like you are running into a 14 mph wind? That doesn't seem right.

The conversation is over wrote:

Think about it, every time you leap (flight phase of running stride)the belt is spinning beneath you covering more distance than you would outdoors with each stride.

How do you think you cover ground when you're running outside? If you're running a 4-minute mile outside, what speed do you think the ground beneath you is moving at?

Just asking..... wrote:

LM wrote:

When you're drafting you get about 30% savings. .

Did you pull that out of your backside or can you direct me to some studies that show that is true?

Are you saying that if you are drafting in a 20 mph wind that it still feels like you are running into a 14 mph wind? That doesn't seem right.

It's pretty established for cycling, one such example here:

A quick search turns up plenty of results. Obviously, it's effected by many things, but 30% is a good working value for behind one runner. If there are huge size differences or your in a major group that's wide with you in the middle it can approach 50%.

With the question you asked, not quite. With a 20 mph wind power needed would be 8,000 units, and given a 30% savings you're looking at 5,600 units. That's the same power needed to deal with approximately a 17.5 mph wind. Just important to keep in mind the increase in wind resistance from 17.5->20 is MUCH greater than the increase from say 2.5 -> 5 due to the squared effect on wind resistance and cubic effect on power needed to overcome said resistance.

I don't know if it's easier to run a 4:00 mile on a treadmill, but someone told me that it was a lot easier to run a marathon on the track, even an indoor track!

canspo wrote:

.... what speed do you think the ground beneath you is moving at?

460 meters per second, at the equator.

Heh heh...yes, the quote is out of context, but I had to do this!

Uh guys, Tony Whiteman himself has posted in this thread, having done what the OP asked, and confirming it was easier. Get your head out of your butts!

Do you people not realize that this thread was started in 2009?

Esh wrote:

Do you people not realize that this thread was started in 2009?

Of course we do. It's also irrelevant.

No it is not easier in any sense unless the incline is increased by 3% or more.

In addition to wind resistance the belt also pushes your feet back.

For training purposes research has shown that treadmills need to set and an incline of at least 1-2% for a comparable intensity to road running

3200guy wrote:

Has anyone on here ran an all-out mile on a treadmill? If so, how does it compare to your track pr?

Calibration is a major issue and can vary quite significantly, so unless you've verified the belt speed manually any time you've run on a treadmill isn't valid. That "4:20" treadmill mile you ran could have been 4:45...or 4:05.

That said, a mile is short enough heat isn't a major factor. A marathon on a treadmill would be a different story, and without good fans you'd be at a definite disadvantage on that side.

The major advantage for the mile is of course the lack of wind resistance. At 15mph, that's a big deal. On a correctly calibrated treadmill a 4:00 mile would be MUCH easier than on the track. Likely a 4:1x guy could run sub 4 on a treadmill. Any 4:0x guy absolutely could.

Track PR - 4:39

Treadmill PR - 4:36

Road race PR with (-2% avg grade) - 4:34

Later in life, I learned I am a pretty good runner. My brother ran a 4:05 mile as a sophomore in HS. He received an athletic and academic scholarship to Tennessee Tech. I guess it was in our genes. When I was in my very late 20’s, early/mid 30’s I was running in races, mostly 5k. I was averaging a 5:20pace. I never tested my one mile. anyway, at 55, I recently started running again. Most of my running is done on a treadmill. For me, I feel like the treadmill gives me a great deal of assistance. It surely maintains the pace, and keeps my legs moving when on many occasions my mind would prefer to stop. I recently tested myself, and knocked out a 6 minute mile on the treadmill. At this point, I could never do that on a natural course. My goal is to do a 3:59 on the treadmill. Based on my progress in the last 6 months, I will make the attempt in 4-6 months. I know this thread is quite old, but I’d like to resurrect it… hahaha. I value and respect everyone’s opinion, as we are all very unique.

I'm 20% heavier (fatter) than I was in high school when I set my prior mile PR... beat it by 20 seconds on the mill a few weeks back with less effort