Sub 1:50 800m Training

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  • JRinaldi
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    5 years ago 07/29/2014 12:28am CDT
    re: I am not a vegan
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    Main changes from the program last year;

    -Monday pure speed session, where we’d do 60m of Dan Pfaff drills, followed by shorter fast reps (30-60m) from a standing start. Steve Hooker has been instrumental in the development on this session that we introduced in Sept last year.
    -Saturday threshold type session. This started with 4xmile with 60sec rec iin 5:12-16 pace and later changed to 4xmile with 2:30rec @vVo2max pace so around 5:00-05pace…normally go a little quicker each rep. We always follow this session with a short jog to the hill and do 4-5 reps over 150 -300m (changes each week)

    I don’t really count mileage and always just give the runs in minutes. These are probably right around 6min pace. Normal WU before a workout is 15min plus 3-4x100m strides and CD is 10min – so biggest week is probably 40-45miles.

    Keep in mind that I’m not advocating this is the best program in the world for all 800m runners; it’s just a program that seems to be working well for Alex and has seen him progress year on year since he was 15.

    Goals for this trip were;
    Try win every race (won 3 in a row)
    1:44.50 (hit that with 1:44.40)
    Make Comm Games 800m final. (injured)

    Typical week in the build up to Europe

    Mon Pfaff Drills (60m) + 3x3x40m + relaxed 200 (23.3) – 1st set of 40’s in flats
    Tue 3x5x200m hill EEEH EEHEE EHEHE ( = Easy Hard) jbrec then 3min btw sets
    Wed 45min + Gym
    Thu 5x400/300/200 with 60sec @64/30/28sec, 3min btw sets
    Fri 30min + Gym
    Sat 1x2 mile (10:03) 2x1mile (5:00 and 4:34) + 4x20sec hill sprint
    Sun 60min easy

    * Ran a good 3.84km leg of a cross country race a week after this and then a 47.47 400m pb 2 weeks after this. So both ends were working well at the same time.

    Last 3 weeks leading up to 1:44.40

    Sat 800m - BEL 1st 1:46.71 – 2nd 1:48.27
    Sun 8x2min with 1min rec @vV02max on trails
    Mon 30min easy
    Tue 2x150m (250j) + 3x200 (2min) + 2x150m (250j) 26-25-24 pace
    Wed Rest Day
    Thu WU + 150m @17.5sec
    Fri Rest Day
    Sat 800m - BEL 1st 1:44.74 (3rd fastest Aussie ever) – 2nd 1:46.32
    Sun 30min easy
    Mon 4x5min with 2:30 rec @vV02max on trails
    Tue 30min easy
    Wed Pfaff drills (60m) + 2x50-40-30m (3/6min rec) + 2x120m @13.2 and 13.1
    Thu 2x600 (1:38 3x400 (62) in flats wt 200j 6min 300m 35/36 spikes
    Fri 20min easy
    Sat 2x300(100j)200 8'rec at 39/24sec
    Sun 15min easy
    Mon Rest
    Tue Race - Lucerne 1:45.73 1st – 2nd 1:45.79 was very relaxed in last 50m
    Wed 20min
    Thu Rest Day
    Fri Race – Monaco DL 1:44.40 =NR 7th – winner ran 1:42.45 (pushed wide in last 100m, could have run 1:44.3x if not)

    Unfortunately, Alex injured his hamstring (Grade 1 tear) about 7 days after this race and had to pull out of the Commonwealth Games. Lesson we learnt was that you really need to hold back, no matter how good you are feeling and stick to the target times for the workout. Probably harder to do when you are in really good shape and chomping at the bit to attack the next race. We will not make that mistake again next year leading in to World Champs.

    JR
  • SlowFatMaster
    registered
    5 years ago 07/29/2014 5:01pm CDT
    re: JRinaldi
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    Hi JRinaldi:

    Great stuff! Thanks for sharing.

    If he ran 10:03, 5:00 and 4:34 in a workout, how do you figure his vVO2max is 5:00-5:05 pace?
  • JRinaldi
    registered
    5 years ago 07/29/2014 5:30pm CDT
    re: SlowFatMaster
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    Good question - His vVO2 max pace on the track is 6.12mps, so if we were doing the reps on the track, they'd be a lot quicker 4:23/24 pace). But we run these reps on an undulating dirt path, so it's difficult to get the pace exactly right, so it's more based off effort, rather than an exact time. We always err on the side of slower rather than faster. As you can see, he still has a lot of room for improvement in this area and we'll keep trying to improve on that year on year.

    JR
  • Coachm1
    5 years ago 08/25/2014 12:30pm CDT
    re: JRinaldi
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    JRinaldi

    Thanks for sharing! Hoping and wishing for a speedy recovery for your athlete.
  • H S
    5 years ago 11/13/2014 4:02am CST
    re: Coachm1
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    Just spent the last 2 months reading the entire blog - really very impressive. Tremendous to have such rich information, glad it didnt get bogged down in physiology. At the end of the day, its all about searching for the limit of your own body - and 800m is a great event to test that. I have a crop of 14 to 17 year old guys I guide at present who are all ripping into 800's and I have learnt a lot - and I thought after 30 years of experience its great to still be learning. Started my training way back in the 80's with a 1min 47.7 mate who fought for a spot at Munich with a young John Walker, both of them not quite making it - all Lydiard stuff, happy to see the progression from that training as Im sure Lydiard also would have embraced. I appreciate the sage comments from OldSub4 and the detail from JRinaldi, especially the focus on injury awareness. Cheers folks.
  • 800 lover
    5 years ago 11/13/2014 4:43am CST
    re: JRinaldi
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    Didn't see JRinaldi's last entry before now. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing!

    Best wishes to you and Alex.
  • x-man
    5 years ago 11/14/2014 10:40am CST
    re: JRinaldi
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    Last year leading up to my last race of the outdoor season I did a 5k time trial 2 weeks before. I felt great and ran a 20:57 which is not the greatest obviously. After 2 weeks of training I went on and ran a PR of 1:54.28. I was excited to keep racing but shut it down for the year. My coach and I decided this year to ad a base building phase in the fall which I have never done before so I trained as a 5k runner from June until the beginning November 1st. I ran a PR of 17:10 for 5k during this phase in the beginning of October and then started to burn out and not run as well. I took a week of and am back into training this week but I want to know if me running over 3 mins faster in the 5k this year will help me run a faster 800 in the spring.
  • typical yes man
    5 years ago 11/14/2014 12:20pm CST
    re: x-man
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    x-man wrote:

    Last year leading up to my last race of the outdoor season I did a 5k time trial 2 weeks before. I felt great and ran a 20:57 which is not the greatest obviously. After 2 weeks of training I went on and ran a PR of 1:54.28. I was excited to keep racing but shut it down for the year. My coach and I decided this year to ad a base building phase in the fall which I have never done before so I trained as a 5k runner from June until the beginning November 1st. I ran a PR of 17:10 for 5k during this phase in the beginning of October and then started to burn out and not run as well. I took a week of and am back into training this week but I want to know if me running over 3 mins faster in the 5k this year will help me run a faster 800 in the spring.

    Yes.
  • Rubtio
    5 years ago 12/25/2014 1:33pm CST
    re: rubio
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    bump
  • Krikek
    5 years ago 01/04/2015 6:07pm CST
    re: Rubtio
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    Is this a good basetraining format? this year i am still recovering from injury to my patella tendon and am only running for 8 weeks after a year off. so i want to keep mileage low. Plan is to do this till july and then do 8 weeks with 2 track workouts on wednesday and friday and only one tempo run. Or am i better of with 2 track workouts a week right on?

    M 6 km T
    T 5 km E
    W 10 km WO
    T 5 km E
    F 6 km T
    S 5 km E
    S 15 km LR

    Easy being jogging at whatever pace is easy
    Tempo pace aiming for 5'10" miling by summer (3'10" per km)
    Long Run pace aiming for 6'30" miling within a few weeks (4'00" per km)

    i manage 5 by 5 minutes at 5'40" 3 by 1000 at 3'09" and 8 by 150 in 21" in workout for now. So i have a long way to go both ways speed and endurance. But my endurance part used to be rocksolid as i have run under 49 minutes for 16 kilometers in 2011.
  • iguchi
    registered
    5 years ago 01/04/2015 7:27pm CST
    re: Anbessa
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    What a thread.
  • thought it was obvious
    4 years ago 05/23/2015 6:36pm CDT
    re: JRinaldi
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    Hope you're still reading this....

    3 questions I surprisingly never saw asked (might be wrong):

    1. What are Pfaff drills? Could you elaborate?

    2. Why lifting on easy days?

    3. What's the deal with the variable effort hills (EHHEEH, etc)?



    Thanks for the response if you get to it!
  • mc hammer
    4 years ago 05/23/2015 7:38pm CDT
    re: thought it was obvious
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    Found this thread very useful. a HS athlete I coach just ran 1.47.91 last week, aim was to just to get under 1.50. Signed with Wake Forest.
    The goal splits he ran were 53/55. It is a little earlier than we had planned as the season objective is Pan Am Jnrs the first weekend of August. Remains to be seen whether he can improve on this, or at least become consistent at it. Now need to work on some speed as his 400m (49.0) is a bit defficient and needs to get down to 48.0 or faster.

    This was done on 25-30 miles per week, and he is likely capable of 3.45-50 for 1500m as well, based on a 1k TT a couple of weeks ago of 2.29, going out in 56 and purposely slowing down (instructed to). He followed that up 10 minutes later with a 600m in 1.23 (gave him more recovery than planned). Next step is to run a 1200m in under 3.00. He does ALL of his training solo by the way, no training partners at all - much like JRinaldi, it is me and him much of the time (I do coach a couple of girls as well).
  • aspiring149
    4 years ago 06/11/2015 12:20pm CDT
    re: OldSub4
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    OldSub4 wrote:
    Try the following

    800m in 2:30...400 jog
    800m in 2:25.....400 jog
    800m in 2:20.....400 jog

    Just get that workout booked.

    Same week do

    3*1 mile in 5:30...30 seconds rest...fake tempo run


    Start adding an 800 rep every two weeks at the next level down (ie add in 800 in 2:15 next) and add 800m to the tempo run. Once you get to 5*800m start moving your times down slowly. Once you get to 4 miles, start to reduce the rest until you cut it out.

    Build your Sunday run to 10 miles....good form, 7 minute pace. Something happens to you after around 8 miles...legs get heavy and you have to start concentrating on form. You will remember this feeling at the end of an 800m.

    Do only one real "speed" workout per week

    on the off days 3 out of the 4 do 100-150 strides to keep your speed fresh.

    Been reading thru this grand old thread, and really like this base plan from Oldsub4. I ran 1:51 in 2013, improving my PB from 1:57, but I have been hampered with lower leg problems since. I have been working hard in physical therapy and I'm going to base my summer/fall loosely off this plan. Would love for this thread to come alive again and for others to share their training.

    Good luck out there
  • 800training
    4 years ago 08/02/2015 3:21am CDT
    re: aspiring149
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    Great info but could some 149/150 runners post some sessions up with times to aim for please would make it a lot easier if I knew the targets, cheers
  • what program?
    4 years ago 10/25/2015 3:14pm CDT
    re: OldSub4
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    OldSub4 wrote:
    I was lucky to be coached after college by the absolute best middle distance in the country in my opinion, who I will leave anonymous here.

    If it was the absolute best program, it wouldn't be anonymous.

    Guesses?
  • it's almost track season
    4 years ago 11/04/2015 12:06pm CST
    re: aspiring149
    Forum Index
    It's almost track season again for College athletes. So lets bump this thread again to help all of us.

    Based on OldSub4s training. What do you guys think about this base week after xc?

    Mo: AM short sprints (hills30-60m, later track 30-60m) + milage
    PM: Threshold Mileage (maybe 8 Miles at 6:00 pace) + lifting
    Tu: AM: easy shakeout
    PM: 5x800m workout coutdown from 2:30-2:15 (over the base season to 2:05 rest 400m jog in under 2min)
    We: AM: Lifting + drills
    PM: easy mileage
    Th: PM 6Mile tempo 5:30 ( to 4Miles in 5:00 pace in the end of base/ beginning of strength) +2x3x200m "easy strides after" start at 36 and work down like 36/34/32/36/34/32 (in the end of spring worked down to 28/26/24/28/26/24 rest would be 200m jog in 90sec?)
    Fr: 10x400 or 10x500 base workout with 100m jog rest (30sec?) and every other week something like 5x1k working down from 3:10-2:45 (rest 2-3min?) or 3/2/1k (easy 800m jog/ hard 400m jog as rest) trying to stay relaxed but fast
    Sa: Easy Milage
    Su: 15 Mile long run (every 3rd week 17/18Miles)

    This would be a 80 Miles per week plan maybe at the peak 90 and in off weaks 70.
    I ran a 3:50 last season and want to aim for a 3:45 this outdoor season.

    Just a few other questions around training, because this is the best middle distance thread all over:

    What do you guys think about a sprint workout 10x100m in 13sec with an increase to 2x10x100m in 11.5-12sec after indoors. This workout would change to the peak of the season to 5x150m to 3-150m quick (18sec). Should I integrate this stuff? How?

    I want to run some kind of indoor season with a focus over the 3000m but also run maybe 2 800/mile races (conference, DMR). Is this ok/a good idea?

    I want to start the base phase 11/15/15
    indoor conference is around end of February
    d2 indoor nationals around begin/mid march
    outdoor conference around begin may
    d2 nationals around end may

    How long should I train in each phase?
    I have a coach, off course. But we are talking allot about training together and trying to improve things. Also I want to be a mid distance Coach as well after College, so this helps me a lot.

    Sorry for spelling and grammar errors, English is not my first language.
  • Registered name on letsrun
    4 years ago 11/07/2015 2:12pm CST
    re: it's almost track season
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    To the top we go
  • just wanna b good
    4 years ago 11/07/2015 2:22pm CST
    re: what program?
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    I think it was said at some point in the thread, but the team was the Reebok Enclave coached by Gagliano.
  • just wanna b good
    4 years ago 11/07/2015 2:22pm CST
    re: what program?
    Forum Index
    I think it was said at some point in the thread, but the team was the Reebok Enclave coached by Gagliano.