At-Large Appeal

Unless I'm missing something, when OSU was on the bubble and Michigan was a possible pusher:

Michigan had 6 points (the most)

OSU and ColSt had 5 each, with OSU coming ahead of ColSt (common opp-Butler).

So under the interpretation that I believe the committee has ALWAYS USED and continued to use in 2003, Michigan does not push OSU since OSU will get into the meet ON THIS SELECTION if they are not pushed by Michigan.

In terms of actually getting the very best teams to the national championships, teams outside of the top 10 really shouldn't matter. But since school and teams do care and take pride in 12th and 17th and even 24th place finishes, it does matter. Just qualifying for the national meet can do wonders for recruiting, and can make a huge difference for a school on the rise or decline. Plus on an institutional level, having more nationally ranked teams (even if it is XC) can be great, especially for smaller colleges and universities that don't have a top football or basketball team. So to the Stanfords and Georgetowns who seem to easily qualify every year, it really doesn't matter what system is used or who gets the last few spots, but to many other schools it really does.

And to argue anything about travel budgets is pretty ridicolous considering that currently to get any atlarge points a school has to travel great distances to Griak, Great American, Pre-Nats, etc.. So if a team doesn't want to travel to get at-large points now and they aren't a contender for an auto spot they just can avoid the super regional.

One reason I like getting away from 13 at large spots is that teams like UVA, who obviously peaked at Great American, wouldn't be messing stuff up for teams that waited to peak at the appropriate time.

And to close - I would like to point out that ND did beat Villanova at Big East by I think 1 point (Nova didn't run too hot that day - but excuses aside they still beat them)

Info wrote:

Kevin,

Yes, Super Regionals will let weaker teams in. Look at the SE, MA and NE regions this year. That is a proposed Super Region with the coaches wanting 10 autos from each Super Region.

NE: Iona, Providence

MA: Villanova, Georgetown

SE: NC State, Kentucky, W&M, Virginia

They are only sending 8 teams to the NCAA's this year and people are questioning that. UVA only ran great at Great American but earned enough points to qualify and push W&M in. The Super Regional proposal would now send two additional teams from these three regions. You find two more teams from these three regions that deserve to go. With Super Regionals two more would advance and take away spots from other schools.

.

Princeton (1point, beat Minn at pre-nats, 5 points behind Washington, beat UVa & Portland), Brown with a win over PU.

What is everyone complaining about? When I ran xc nationals only 22 teams qualified for nationals.

The most famous hoosier summed it up best:

"I fight authority you know I always will."

-John Couger Mellencamp

to whomever said that butler and notre dame deserved to get it...if they deserved to get in, then they would have gotten in...the only teams that deserve to get in are the ones that finish top 2 at regions...every team who has a legitmate shot at winning or taking a trophy at NCAAs is in the meet so who cares. I personally think the system now is fine. if you are not "on" at regions, that is tough but you have to deal with it

i hate notre dame also and am not particularly fond of butler...sour grapes on both sides...next time come in 2nd and not 8th and you wont have to whine like a bunch of little b****es

Teams like Butler and Norte Dame should get in. If they were in the regional with Arkansas they would be 2 and 3 if they were in the NE they would be 3+4 if they were in Virginia region they would beat them and go 2+3 the region system sucks, there are 3 good regions, great lakes, mountain, and west. Do the math.

[quote]McKelvey wrote:

2 Interpretations:

2003 (WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED):

Virginia being added to the meet now gives both Miami & Washington 3 wins.

Now we compare Washington, Colorado State & Miami. Colorado State has 3 wins with a head to head over Miami.

Miami has 3 wins with a head to head over Washington.

Washington has 3 wins with no wins over Colorado State or Miami.

Position 27: Colorado State earns their bid based on their head to head win over Miami.

Position 28: Miami earns their bid based on their head to head win over Washington.

Now we consider the teams and their wins for final 3 spots:

Butler 1 win Indiana

Notre Dame 3 wins Michigan/Providence/Villanova

Washington 3 wins Virginia/Minnestoa/Arizona

Oregon 6 wins Georgia/Arizona (twice)/Providence/Miami/Minnesota

Princeton 1 win Minnesota

Why don't Princeton's wins over Virginia and Portland count?

yeah well they werent in the same regional as arkansas...so they shouldnt get in...tough luck...maybe joe franklin would have better luck having buter located to florida...maybe then they could take top 2

XC is simple. Make it simple. Go to Conference, qualify top 6. Go to Regions, qualify 4. A bunch of teams go to nationals and slug it out. Hey, there are only four trophys anyway...

Settle it on the field. Not behind a desk.

Bonja - Same regional as Arkansas? Texas A&M had enough wins to get in the meet anyway. Hope much bitching would there be if they finished 4th and pushed Stephen F Austin and Texas in.

I'm sick of hearing "head to head win". What happens earlier in the season happens just then; earlier in the season. If you want to send a team that beat a qualifier from another region that wasn't running as well earlier in the season, then that's just plain stupid. You're supposed to run well at the end of the season.

Dunn is redshirting and will return next year. By the way, he is from Indianapolis (USA! USA! USA!) And he did volunteer at his old high school for the semester as an assistant...

As far as the foreigners thing, quit being a PUSSY AMERICAN, step up, and race.

Bob Kennedy didn't say "ooooh the Kenyans are illegal."

He f***ing got up there. I suggest you follow in the same fashion.

And BTW, Butler/Notre Dame are not whining. They deserved to get in fair and square. Here in the states, our judicial system sets PRECEDENTS which they follow. Why should the NCAA, an organization loaded with intelligent people, not follow the same sort of rules?

Don't blame Butler or Notre Dame- Blame the NCAA.

Or, are you too afraid to race Butler and Notre Dame? If you are so confident they do not deserve to get in, it would make you feel better beating up on them at nationals to prove your point, right?

Let's be men here and battle it out on the course, not in the offices of the NCAA.