Ryan Hall Is Gonna Win Nats

black,

At least you were respectful in your disagreement with me. I have to admire that brother. I see how you chose to use "brother". Fine with me if you want to be like me (and understandable too), but my respect for you would grow even further if you weren't stealing my 'nacular.

I'll agree that Hall has talent, and if it weren't for Ritz we would all perhaps be saying that Hall (or Sage) was the next great hope, but when you do the comparison thing with Hall and Ritz, Ritz wins everytime. Ritz has better times. Ritz is more consistently great. Ritz does better in big races while Hall has on a number of ocassions finished much worse than what was expected of him. Just seems that Ritz has balls to go with his immense talent. 12:50 - oh yeah.

But your whole argument - if we can call it that - is based on the past, brother. Hall has really stepped it up this year in cross. He's been more consistent than he's ever been before. Did any one have an inclination that he would even have a chance of being top at nats before the season started? Not this brother, brother.

Let's see if Hall fulfills his promise this spring, brother. Soo far he looks great.

If Hall runs as well in the mile/3k, Ritz won't have a chance. And if Hall really run swell this spring, he could make a run at ritz in the 5k. I'm looking into my crytsal ball, brother, and unlike yours I gave mine a good polishing this morning.

It seems every year that hall runs some awesome times early on. So far this season he has done better at keeping it going a little longer. We'll see on Monday. Are you saying that Hall will beat Ritz on Monday?

I predict that Hall finishes 9th - second on his Stanford team - someone from that talent-laden team will beat him.

"the disease"...don't sweat Riverside man, the smog has gone to that posters head...Where's Handler?

actually, i think morrison will win, but that's a different thread.

Yah, let him run his mouth. He may talk trash, but I dun understand why he would so something when his team sucks so bad. Thats just setting himself up with insults.

Yah, let him run his mouth, he may talk trash, but I will never understand why he would do something like that when his team sucks pretty bad. Thats just setting himself up for insults.

Bottom line is this:

As long as people are running close to 50 flat on their last 400 in a 5k championship race, Ritz, Torres, Hall, Goucher will be back in the pack at the OG/WC... no better than 4th. Of course, that is assuming they stay off drugs and others stay on them.

black, thanks for explaining to Flagpole why in HS and as a Frosh in college BK demonstrated at least as much talent as Ritz has, if not more.

"Back again," spare us your lame drug excuses.

Gordon (I think you were the one to make the comment asking why would BK move up if he was so good at the 5k)-firstly, Geb ran a 2:06 ON HIS DEBUT marathon. Surely you are not going to use him as an example of a track guy who could not run a good marathon are you???? Tergat ran some 2:08's at first, right? Looks like he got down under 2:05, huh? Geb could run in the 2:04's also. Looks like some 5k/10k track guys are doing just fine at the marathon to me. And the point is: Kennedy had a lot less raw speed than those guys, but could still crack 13:00 in the 5k. So...he most likely would have closed that gap as the race got longer. BK had a DISTANCE runner's stride (no knee lift). He won NCAA D1 X-C AS A FROSH after a low mileage HS career. That demonstrates incredible natural endurance. His kicked PALED in comparison to the best 5k guys, so he had no shot at a medal. So why should he have moved up to the marathon?? Let me count the reasons...(oh yeah, I already did)

I agree with Flagpole on this one. Ritz is the class of the NCAA right now, and while Hall has incredible talent, he still has to assert himself and run some great races like Ritz has for his whole career.

Now, I think Hall is going to be great. He has excellent speed and his race tactics are much improved. Plus, he is training in a great program. Still, Ritz is the superior runner at this juncture.

And to "black", we need to remember that Ritz won PreNats convincingly off very, very little training. He basically didn't run for an entire year, and then he went out and won PreNats against some very tough competition (Morrison, Cheseret, the NAU guys, etc.). I don't know if Kennedy could have done that. In his career, when he isn't in his best shape, he gets beaten.

Ritz is the real deal, and I think Hall will be in a couple years, as well. Things are looking good for the US-of-A!

Hall may have 'blown up' the last couple of years from his hard and dedicated summer base work. However, all of that work is probably a huge reason for his success now. In other words, I think people should sometimes worry about getting to a certain level first, before compromising their workouts to save for the end of the year. That may work for that year, but not always long term.

In the past, if Hall eased off in the summer he likely would've had better late season races. At the same time though, he probably wouldn't be at his current level now.

[quote]dean moriarty wrote:

And to "black", we need to remember that Ritz won PreNats convincingly off very, very little training. He basically didn't run for an entire year, and then he went out and won PreNats against some very tough competition (Morrison, Cheseret, the NAU guys, etc.). I don't know if Kennedy could have done that. In his career, when he isn't in his best shape, he gets beaten.

{quote]

i don't know what that has to do with anything. some guys can get in shape faster than others after injury.

someone else posted bob's progression during college. it certainly doesn't appear staggering, but what it tells me is that he could race. look at his finishes at worlds, the olympics, the ncaa titles - all point to the fact that regardless of his pr's at the time, bob brought it on the day it counted.

ritz has promise, but he hasn't led an olympic 5k yet. and at this point in his career he has run so many more miles than bob, he likely won't improve as much as bob did after college.

listen, i'm rooting for the kid. let's just give 12:58 some respect. there aren't many who have gone faster. i think rtiz will be very blessed indeed if he gets close to that mark.

I think Ritz may place higher than BK in the world meets...although that's a tall order. But, at the same time, I do not think he will better BK's marks.

Ritz is an SOB racer who can beat people. BK always spoke of others needing to do the work during a race, and that he wasn't capable of sub-:57 finishes, even with a 3:54 mile PR. He also seemed too much of a thinking man's racer. Ritz flat out does not think that way. In fact he doesn't think, he just tries his guts out to beat you.

ttc wrote:

I think Ritz may place higher than BK in the world meets...although that's a tall order. But, at the same time, I do not think he will better BK's marks.

Ritz is an SOB racer who can beat people. BK always spoke of others needing to do the work during a race, and that he wasn't capable of sub-:57 finishes, even with a 3:54 mile PR. He also seemed too much of a thinking man's racer. Ritz flat out does not think that way. In fact he doesn't think, he just tries his guts out to beat you.

what kind of revisionist history is this. at atlanta kennedy took the lead and tried to run with it. everyone knew he was doomed, he probably knew he was doomed too, but he made the move and gave it a shot.

check out his bio in college - with unimpressive pr's he was winning races and making the finals at the olympics and world champs. kennedy was a great competitor.

unfortunately, i don't see ritz closing much faster than kennedy did. sure, the kid has guts, but to suggest kennedy didn't is ludicrous.

Someone made a comment about Ritz not being able to run well off of low mileage. That is my example. He did almost no base training for a year, and he won PreNats.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Ritz's potential simply because he hasn't "led an Olympic 5k". He has come up big in every big race, and his PR's are sick, especially for his age.

dean moriarty wrote:

Someone made a comment about Ritz not being able to run well off of low mileage. That is my example. He did almost no base training for a year, and he won PreNats.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Ritz's potential simply because he hasn't "led an Olympic 5k". He has come up big in every big race, and his PR's are sick, especially for his age.

Not only that DM, but as someone else said earlier, Ritz is just now getting a man's body. Kennedy was physically mature before college; Ritz wasn't. I think Ritz just shaved for the first time last week!

12:50 - oh yeah. And that doesn't take anything away from the great Bob Kennedy. Ritz is just better (as time will prove) from 5,000 on up. Right now while BK holds the records he's the man, but Ritz will be the man on that stage, and as far as NCAA goes, he is THE MAN right now.

Hall won't break top ten. He is known to be a major choker.

I will be running nationals even though I am not even in college and I will beat Ritz by 50 meters. - Deak