[quote]Run Consistently wrote:
A typical week will look like this
Mon- 8x800- Mile pace, 5 min rest
Tue- Race
Wed- 4 x 3000 - 5k pace, 5 min rest
Thur- Race, or Time Trial
Fri- 12 x 400- 800 pace, 2 min rest
Sat- Race
Is it even possible to run 4x 3000 at 5K pace? It seems to me you should be able to run a faster pace in a 5k race than you can run 4x 3k in a workout. But off of this program, your 5k race pace is bound to be pretty slow.
He's ummmm Kenyan you genius. You're comparing a Kenyan Gebreselassie who runs to eat and live to an American kid training in high school. Man I am going to jump right onto your bandwagon.
get it foo wrote: He's ummmm Kenyan you genius. You're comparing a Kenyan Gebreselassie
Whoa, thanks for the heads-up! Thanks to your timely tip we've just been able to put a stop to a dastardly plot to have him compete as - get this - an Ethiopian when he's actually Kenyan. Naturally that's a big big no-no!
Follow 2 things:
1. The documented science of the sport.
2. What works for you.
re #1: evidence supports that vo2 max has little / no improvement beyond 70 mpw. Yes, I know, that is only one of the variables in distance training, but it is a known and measured physiological barometer attached to distance running.
re #2: success most often depends upon your genetic gifts, not what someone else has done. Gerry Lindgren was reported to have trained over 300 mpw and could stay injury free, while German Fernandez has followed a mileage plan of less than 70 mpw. Both were successful H.S. distance record holders.
Look at the science and find what works for you.
There's a lot more to running than VO2Max: lots of running will develop more capilaries, more mitochondria, more myoglobin and will add to overall strength. How much stronger will a kid be who is training comfortably at 70mpw vs one at 40mpw?
How much stronger will a kid be who can effectively produce more force per foot strike regardless of how many miles he / she runs?
I graduated HS in 1980. I ran close to 100mpw the summer before my senior year - ran a day some garbage miles. I did a lot of laying around between runs This was not with the blessing of my coaches (HS *and* college) who were very highly regarded, but they tolerated it. I also attended a camp as a camper and also as a counselor where the goal was to run a 140 mile week. That coach is in the Ohio TF hall of fame. I built up to this amount from 30-40 as a freshman and a little more each year. My body could take it and I never experienced burnout. A lot of kids will not be able to do this without getting a stress fracture or mono - but I guess I was lucky. There were people in my state that did as good or a lot better than me in HS and College on less but they had more talent read: footspeed. My HS times (4:15 mile/4:00 1500/ 9:26 3200 and 1:58 800) College times 3:48 1500 was really the only time of note as I was a headcase... As a result I got a partial div 1 scholarship and was the outstanding frosh as a college freshman in CC. There is no way I would have been running past HS unless I did this. Don't let people dissuade you if you have the inclination to put in the work - but do get good at listening to your body. Good luck and stay healthy.
I graduated HS in 1980. I ran close to 100mpw the summer before my senior year - ran a day some garbage miles. I did a lot of laying around between runs This was not with the blessing of my coaches (HS *and* college) who were very highly regarded, but they tolerated it. I also attended a camp as a camper and also as a counselor where the goal was to run a 140 mile week. That coach is in the Ohio TF hall of fame. I built up to this amount from 30-40 as a freshman and a little more each year. My body could take it and I never experienced burnout. A lot of kids will not be able to do this without getting a stress fracture or mono - but I guess I was lucky. There were people in my state that did as good or a lot better than me in HS and College on less but they had more talent read: footspeed. My HS times (4:15 mile/4:00 1500/ 9:26 3200 and 1:58 800) College times 3:48 1500 was really the only time of note as I was a headcase... As a result I got a partial div 1 scholarship and was the outstanding frosh as a college freshman in CC. There is no way I would have been running past HS unless I did this. Don't let people dissuade you if you have the inclination to put in the work - but do get good at listening to your body. Good luck and stay healthy.
sorry for the duplicate post...
Won't make much difference when they can turn out as much ATP because their oxygen deliver system isn't as developed and they don't have as much mitochondria as they could, huh?
You dont want to be completely overdoing it as long as you are comfortable doing what you are doing fine but you will start to feel extremely tired ... but question is how much of it is junk milage??
Theres a lad with us he's only 16 doing 30 miles a week ... running sub 14.30 for 5K hes approached this very carefully the only reason he'd need to up his mileage is to increase the distance he wants to run.
another name to throw in wrote:
I can already tell people will bash the name I'm going to throw out, but I heard Todd Williams speak
Why would anyone bash Todd W? He´s one of the toughest runners America has produced. Meb, Ryan Hall etc. have not been able to beat his Gate River Run CR.
get it foo wrote:
He's ummmm Kenyan you genius. You're comparing a Kenyan Gebreselassie who runs to eat and live to an American kid training in high school. Man I am going to jump right onto your bandwagon.
This has to be one of the worst comebacks and arguements I have seen in a long time. Funny stuff. Thanks for that. I had to laugh.
My thoughts:
Run as much as you can without getting sick, injured or tired of running.
Run as much as you can without performance getting worse.
I would say that you might want to have some lower mileage weeks thrown in from time to time and might want to reduce the mileage during the season if the coach has you doing a lot of high intensity running.
At some point everyone needs to figure out his/her limits and the only way to do that is to test yourself.
Just curious, how many of Joe Newton's kids have gone on to do much in college?
How much are top girls running?
College Heights Christian School, one of the smaller schools in Missouri, scored a 16 at the state meet in 2007 with their runners only running 5 to 6 days a week and never running more than 30 miles. They mainly do tempo work and longer intervals.
Potosi High School in Missouri scored a 16 in 2006 with their runners running a six week peak of 90 miles heading into the first day of actual practice.
So which method is best? College Heights average time was around 17:15 on the Missouri course, which is a very, very tough championship course.
Potosi's average time was 16:00 flat, again on a very hilly course.
The argument for only running 50 miles per week might work if you happen to have future NCAA champions on your team, but for the team with average Joes, the higher mileage programs tend to bring out the best in the individual.
Check out a super high mileage school: West Plains in Missouri.
Boys
Most Team Titles
West Plains Zizzers 12
Most Top-Four Team Finishes
West Plains Zizzers 23
Most Individual Champions
West Plains 7
Most Individual Titles
Chris Zinn, West Plains, 3 (1981-83)
Sean Carlson, West Plains, 2 (1993-94)
Individual Champions
1981 Chris Zinn, West Plains, 16:19.1
1982 Chris Zinn, West Plains, 15:55.3
1983 Chris Zinn, West Plains, 15:46.7
1985 Jon Hatley, West Plains,
1993 Sean Carlson, West Plains, 16:21.5
1994, Sean Carlson, West Plains, 16:31
2000, Jason Sandfort, West Plains, 15:43.2
Girls
Most Team Titles
West Plains Zizzers 10
Most Top Four Team Finishes
West Plains Zizzers 17
All-Time Low Scores
West Plains Zizzers, Class 4, 32
Individual Champions
1991, Lisa Brown, West Plains, 19:36.8
2000, Amanda Marcak, West Plains, 19:03.7
2005, Brittani Johnson, West Plains, 18:42
2006, Brittani Johnson, West Plains, 19:01
Pretty good success.
Do you coach or are you one of these pounding the pavement guys that thinks he knows it all?
I think that every one of Mr Newton's state champions went on to be an all american at least once.
the real mobile9 wrote:
50mi/wk for an NCAA distance runner is ridiculous. Second year high schoolers run that much.
And the point is to:
1) Keep them healthy
2) Don't burn them out (infinitely more likely to do so on too much insensity than volume)
3) Keep them in a position to have to option to continue rnning/competing further down the road.
Compare Webb and Hall in high school:
Webb 400m 47.5 1500m 3:36.2c
Hall 400m 50.5 1500m 3:42.7
Hall ran faster relative to his 400m ability because of the additional volume he was doing. You take Hall's stamina and put it together with Webb's wheeks and you've got a guy running 3:29 (which is essentially where he got to last year).
maybe not as crazy as you think. i had a friend run 14:52 for the 5k this past outdoor season in NCAA running only 50 miles per week. however, he was one of those higher intensity folks.