I think people undestand that Germans performance is more impressive. However that doesn't mean he would win the 5k. Some guys can double better than others. German is one of them. Derrick ran 8:49 with freaking MONO! I find it very hard to imagine Derrick not running close to 8:36. Of course it's just speculation but it's speculation that I am entitled to.
My guess is that college guy that could do his double would be running at least 13:40 (and maybe 13:30-), which means that Derrick's first 1800 would have to be 15 seconds faster (or 25)without slowing down his rapid finish. Additional conditioning would cover part of that, but 15 seconds is a bunch and 25 is way out there (though Rupp dis something similar but there would not be a bunch of runners pulling them along).
It is interesting to note that not only were these run in HS meets, but they were done solo despite being top meets.
Well, when I was in college I ran a similar mile time, and a better 3000 equivalent. I could have done that double. Anyway, my 5k time indoors was just inside 13:50. But it was done in a race where I finished 5th or sixth, I didn't do it solo running my last 2 miles in 8:49, although I probably ran my first two pretty close to that. Anyway, I think that two performances were pretty equivalent.
dead poets society wrote:
I think people undestand that Germans performance is more impressive. However that doesn't mean he would win the 5k. Some guys can double better than others. German is one of them. Derrick ran 8:49 with freaking MONO! I find it very hard to imagine Derrick not running close to 8:36. Of course it's just speculation but it's speculation that I am entitled to.
It was actually a double that Derrick ran with mono. He ran 8:58 and came back with a 4:14.
German would definitely win that one! Nuff said!
nice double, no need to compare the two. It's funny that people are trying to detract the reality of this feat by comparing German to Derrick. They wer note racing each other, at the time. Yes, the thought of them racing poses a great idea for the mind, but, nonetheless, it is irrelevant due to the circumstances. Great running, hats off to him! And another thing, rabbits are good for time trials, practice...practice...and time trials. Using rabbits to run fast is corny - race to win - and run to race.
Sincerely I hope that German doesn't burn out with such intense competition. I'd rather prefer seeing him running slower times, and in a couple of years challenge the US mile or 5K record, instead of seeing him doing these bloody competitons.
I just hope that he still continues to improve...
I am not exaggerating when I say I think that right now German has a real shot to break 13:30. There has never been a high school runner as strong in the distances as this kid.
German ran 14:24 (5k) at Woodward park 14 seconds faster than anyone before. That alone has to be worth 13:50 on a track and now he has clearly improved.
FREE GERMAN!
This is a classic match up that goes beyond just the competition. It touches race and class.
lower-class, blue-collar-background, Hispanic kid vs. middle-class, white-collar-background apple-pie midwestern white kid.
How many HS record holders worked part-time DURING the school/track season. You guys are quick to point out that Derrick ran 13:55 early in the season. But I bet he isn't working after his workouts.
Ryan hall: affluent background (do poor folks live in big bear? NO)
Alan Webb: affluent background (you have to be to live in Reston,VA)
Poor people have more hunger to succeed in this sport. Case in point: Any East African.
dead poets society wrote:
I think people undestand that Germans performance is more impressive. However that doesn't mean he would win the 5k. Some guys can double better than others. German is one of them. Derrick ran 8:49 with freaking MONO! I find it very hard to imagine Derrick not running close to 8:36. Of course it's just speculation but it's speculation that I am entitled to.
I agree with this post. Plus, an 8:49 with mono is insane and IMO, shows even better strength than 8:34 after 2 hours of rest. Unless anyone would rather run with mono, than race after 2 hours of rest. Derrick never showed 4:00 ability to this point, which he never really got a chance to do. But in a tough race to call, I'd go with Derrick... I wouldn't bet on it, though.
well.... wrote:
Do you guys realize that fernandez ran 8:34 TWO AND A HALF HOURS AFTER RUNNING 4:00???
yea he should be able to put down 8:34 + 4:00 = 12:34
12:34 + :15 = 12:49
fool proof formula, watch out bobby k, your record is toast.
ttc wrote:
I agree with this post. Plus, an 8:49 with mono is insane and IMO, shows even better strength than 8:34 after 2 hours of rest. Unless anyone would rather run with mono, than race after 2 hours of rest. Derrick never showed 4:00 ability to this point, which he never really got a chance to do. But in a tough race to call, I'd go with Derrick... I wouldn't bet on it, though.
Derrick couldn't even come close to 4:00 for the 1600, German would crush him in that. 3200 I'd probably also give to German but I still think in a 5k Derrick would be able to beat German.
ttc wrote:
dead poets society wrote:I think people undestand that Germans performance is more impressive. However that doesn't mean he would win the 5k. Some guys can double better than others. German is one of them. Derrick ran 8:49 with freaking MONO! I find it very hard to imagine Derrick not running close to 8:36. Of course it's just speculation but it's speculation that I am entitled to.
I agree with this post. Plus, an 8:49 with mono is insane and IMO, shows even better strength than 8:34 after 2 hours of rest. Unless anyone would rather run with mono, than race after 2 hours of rest. Derrick never showed 4:00 ability to this point, which he never really got a chance to do. But in a tough race to call, I'd go with Derrick... I wouldn't bet on it, though.
Running with mono can never be good, but how far along was he with mono? I have no experience, but I know with sinus infections even though can be diagnosed with one it doesn't mean your performance is too far off at first, but the longer you have it the worse and worse it gets.
I think fernandez could murder 13:55 bye the way. It's hard to say Derrek could have run faster at the end of season or if he was training too hard to early (hence the mono). One thing is for sure, Fernandez is a lot more raw than Derrek and doing the sick solo doubles three weekends in a row while going to school and standing on your legs at Applebees part time makes me think that the 8:34 that Fernandez ran is no where near what he is really capable of.
It's a shame the won't all race. If they all peaked at the same time for two miles on fresh legs, i'd give fernanez 8:27 with puskedra and derrek about 4-6 seconds back. All capable of getting the national record with fernandez really smashing it.
As is sits I think puskedra will give it a big run at Pre, maybe clip it by a second or two and fernandez comes back on fresh legs (finally) but under less ideal conditions at Nike and gets it close to 8:30.
Lets wait and see!
and yes I know I was talking about the two mile and not the 5K. I don't think going to 5K would hurt German AT ALL. His half marathon story off of NO training suggests to me that he is as strong as they come. Well that and his woodward park 5K record. Well that and his numerous doubles and triples this year, all of which resulted in time that would win the most state meets in every thing from the 800 (when he ran on dirt) to the 3200.
one more thought, derrek reminds me more of a josh mcdougal. high mileage and sophisticated training all through high school. gotten a lot out of himself already but hopefully a lot more to get still.
fernandez on the other hand reminds me more of ryan hall, an obvious huge talent but it will take longer to harness it properly and really put it all together
if the big four (lowe, derrek, puskedra & fernandez) stick with it all through college it could be fun to watch!
does anyone think one of these guys could have an outside shot at Rupp next fall if rupp goes to the olympics and has a late track season (meaning short cross season).
I highly doubt it, but it would be interesting.
I guess you missed my post saying he an 8:58 with mono, not an 8:49. He doubled back that day to run 4:14 with splits of 2:11/2:03. Read his blog on thefinalsprint.com. Not to take anything away from him, since 13:55 solo is incredible, but for this discussion, let's get the facts straight.
anonymous ex-collegiate runner wrote:
Well, when I was in college I ran a similar mile time, and a better 3000 equivalent. I could have done that double. Anyway, my 5k time indoors was just inside 13:50. But it was done in a race where I finished 5th or sixth, I didn't do it solo running my last 2 miles in 8:49, although I probably ran my first two pretty close to that. Anyway, I think that two performances were pretty equivalent.
German's double was as solo as Derrick's 5k. Running in front the whole way with a few people hanging on for the first like 1/3 of the race and then after that completely solo.
Of all the things I've read, this comment is the most outlandish. This has nothing to do with race or class. It has every, iota, to do with running. If you look at the power in this guys stride, it's easy to see that he is extremely talented. I'm sure a great(coach)system and work ethic has helped but his stride is effortless. He looks like he is gliding, he runs so smooth. Can't train that.
anonymous ex-collegiate runner wrote:
Well, when I was in college I ran a similar mile time, and a better 3000 equivalent. I could have done that double. Anyway, my 5k time indoors was just inside 13:50. But it was done in a race where I finished 5th or sixth, I didn't do it solo running my last 2 miles in 8:49, although I probably ran my first two pretty close to that. Anyway, I think that two performances were pretty equivalent.
Thanks for that. You're really the man, but we are talking about derrick and fernandez.
My 2 cents: The Fernandez double is more impressive to me and on paper I think he should win a 5k race however I think there is something to be said for beating fernandez heads up already and another thing I think should be pointed out is that 5000m on the track is a long way to race for a high school kid. Derrick has already proven that he can obviously go the distance for 12 and a half. Can Fernandez push that long? Maybe, maybe not. but I doubt we'll know until he's more polished next year.
rug burns wrote:
one more thought, derrek reminds me more of a josh mcdougal. high mileage and sophisticated training all through high school. gotten a lot out of himself already but hopefully a lot more to get still.
fernandez on the other hand reminds me more of ryan hall, an obvious huge talent but it will take longer to harness it properly and really put it all together
if the big four (lowe, derrek, puskedra & fernandez) stick with it all through college it could be fun to watch!
does anyone think one of these guys could have an outside shot at Rupp next fall if rupp goes to the olympics and has a late track season (meaning short cross season).
I highly doubt it, but it would be interesting.
Derrick isn't a high mileage guy, he peaks at 60.