Get a grip re: Hall

Umm, 10k times and honors don't matter at all for debating best ever marathoner. This was only Ryan's third marathon and he is racing against much better competition than Shorter. He doesn't have him yet but he is damn close.

haha, YO wrote:

Umm, 10k times and honors don't matter at all for debating best ever marathoner. This was only Ryan's third marathon and he is racing against much better competition than Shorter. He doesn't have him yet but he is damn close.

Yeah, uhm, that's why I said "Aside from marathoning", ya know? Just to show what a complete runner he was? 10k, roads, cross, marathons -- he could do it all.

Hall's competition is FASTER than Shorter's was, just as Hall is faster than Shorter. Faster is not BETTER, if you aren't winning those races.

Hall is not "damn close". Call me when he wins an Olympic medal (or two), ok?

Hall's competition was not only faster, it's a totally differnt demographic. While africans were on the scene during shorters time, they were not nearly as developed or numerous. Back then, you had a few kenyans, a few ethiopians. Now, you have multitudes of kenyans and ethiopians, plus other african countries in the mix.

Having said that, I think that while Hall could be considered on par with Shorter right now, he will have to win something big to be considered greater than shorter- which I think he will in the next 2-3 years.

Shorter beat the best marathoners the world had to offer in six of the highest profile races of his time (I consider him the winner of the '76 Olympics as the East German drug program was uncovered).

Why does it matter if not all those runners were Africans? Those he beat were still the best marathoners the world had to offer.

I find it odd that anyone could say Hall is even close, having never even won a major international marathon.

I find it odd that you cant understand why its clear that more africans means more competition....and for that matter 1 east german cheater versus modern times where the majority of top athletes are cheating.

Frank Longer wrote:

I find it odd that anyone could say Hall is even close, having never even won a major international marathon.

He's run 2, OK? Second one is arguably the most competetive marathon of all time and he ran 2:06:17 for 5th.

Frank Longer wrote:

Shorter beat the best marathoners the world had to offer

The best marathoners the world had to offer were in none of Shorter's races. They were busy jumping cattle and spearing monkeys. They were NOT running road races at the time in large numbers. What's so hard to understand about that?

If we discovered an island populated by a new race of people who could all run the marathon in 1 hour 45 minutes, would that make the Kenyans any slower? No. They would just appear slow in comparison.

c webb wrote:

Yeah, uhm, that's why I said "Aside from marathoning", ya know? Just to show what a complete runner he was? 10k, roads, cross, marathons -- he could do it all.

Hall's competition is FASTER than Shorter's was, just as Hall is faster than Shorter. Faster is not BETTER, if you aren't winning those races.

Hall is not "damn close". Call me when he wins an Olympic medal (or two), ok?

Then why bring up the 10k stuff? I could point to Hall's HM but it really doesn't matter in the context of debating the better marathoner. I agree that as of right now it is Shorter but Hall is no slouch as you seem to be making him out to be. 2nd major international marathon ever!

You can't compare the level of competition today to what Shorter was running against. The full inclusion of African athletes revolutionized the sport. If Hall didn't have to compete against the incredible runners from Africa, he would be 3-0 and probably the best marathoner in the world. Sure Shorter did amazing things against the best competition available to him, but there is just no way to say what he would do if he were running today or what Hall would do if he was running in the 70's.

Since Shorter is still alive, ask him whether or not he could have run a 2:06:17 if there was better competition.

If Hall were to race Shorter, would Hall win? Probably, which makes him the better marathoner.

This is amazing.

We have one guy who won gold, silver, and the most competitive international marathon four times in a row. He was a world #1 multiple years.

We have another guy who has won the trials marathon, and placed as high as fifth in London.

And the letsrunners have the temerity to claim the second guy is close to the first.

Simply Amazing.

the clock doesn't lie.

Hall is better. I doubt it is just because he is training any "better" than Shorter was.

Could Shorter have done better today? Probably not since he seems to think the training he did was the be all and end all to how training can be done.

People forget that guys like Shorter and Rodgers ran pretty slow marathons early in their careers which generally shows less actual talent and ultimate ability.

Hall is one of very few Americans to immediately translate good short distance times to a fast Marathon.

come on Hall was running close to 4 for the mile when he graduated from HS, Shorter was running 4:30. Hall is a professional runner. There was not such thing when Shorter was at his peak, and there is now only because of the efforts of Shorter and others. Hall is a very good runner. His competition is also making a living at running and he is just learning. Possibly Hall will be winning at London, Boston, Chicago or anywhere else in a couple of years. He is just getting the hang of it. But Shorter is the benchmark. When Ryan is ranked number 1 for 4 years, and wins the Olympic gold, only then can you compare them. And he just might do those things.