....is a great way to go.
Discuss.
....is a great way to go.
Discuss.
Do you post crap these topics just to see the word "Discuss"?
Skuj wrote:
Discuss.
No
Pamela Andersons Left Nipple wrote:
Do you post crap these topics just to see the word \"Discuss\"?
No. Discuss.
Discuss?
Discuss
That used to be fairly common.
Alan
For instance, a Marathoner might do 4 days of 30k+ followed by 3 days of 15k-.
Supercompensation is more easily achieved in this manner.
Cheers
Darren Skuja
Posting as Skuj, no Skuj followed by a dot or two.
I love how people still let Skuj rile 'em up.
I personally think that approaching running this way is a good way to get some of the benefits of really "high" mileage without doing high mileage.
I also remember reading in some of Kellogg's old stuff on the Paragon running website (ok, REALLY old) that he thought this was a good way to basically "simulate" higher mileage.
For example, instead of running 175mpw (25 miles/day) something effective to do would be to run 3-4 days in a row of 25 mile days, take a couple of really easy days, and then repeat; it might look something like this:
M-10
T-15/10
W-15/10
T-15/10
F-10
S-20
S-15/10
total: 140
so, you're only running 140mpw but the body is finding out what it's like to do back to back to back 25 mile days.
I'm considering running high mileage for 5 days and low mileage for 2 days every week in place of the classic "3 weeks high 1 week low" model. The total amount of high and low mileage days remains the same over a 4 week period (20/8 in the former and 21/7 in the later). However, by injecting rest into my schedule more frequently I feel like I will more effectively reap the rewards of my training. I will begin each week feeling like I have absorbed the training of the last week and have a jump in my legs that I only experience once a month at this point.
I don't agree that this type of training just simulates higher mileage. If the total amount of training done works out to be the same then it's just a matter of figuring out how best to package it. People get caught up in being able to say how much mileage they've done in the past 7 days, but this is something that simply allows us to brag to our running friends and limits our vision.
Here is what my new schedule looks like for the marathon:
M - 3k - goal marathon pace work (do this when freshest)
T - up to 135 minutes over 2 runs
W - up to 135 minutes over 2 runs
Th - am 60 minutes pm 75 minutes (includes 15 x :15 hill sprints)
F - am long run: 2:15 - 3:00
Sa and Sun - up to 135 minutes over the 2 days (most likely something like 60 on Saturday and 75 on Sunday)
So much for posting my training anonymously ...
I'm not Skuj despite the fact that clicking on my post name reveals his email address. He's a good friend of mine and I'm presently using his computer (and forgot to leave the e-mail option blank when I posted my above ideas. Sorry Skuj!). We've been discussing my training a lot recently and this thread was one of the off-shoots of these discussions. Just to clear up any confusion that may occur ...
JZ
Bump!
:)
god you are a loser.
And I like the guy who talked about doing a couple "really easy days", and then listed a 10 mile day and 20 mile day. Yeah, that's super easy on top of 3 straight 25 mile days. And I also liked his "so you are ONLY doing 140 miles per week but..."
Don't be a jackass. No one "ONLY" does a 140 per week. If that isn't enough mileage for you, then you should stop running.
Skuj, skuj posting as somenone else, and the people argeeing with skuj are all jackasses, ie, skuj is a jackass.
wow you are a f***ing genius, you've figured out the new paradigm of distance training. This will change everything. Wait til Geb reads this thread, he will immediately adopt your ideas and break 2:00 in no time, and then he thank skuj for thinking outside the box.
That is the system that Hamish Carter (Olympic Tri Champ) and his coach Chris Pilone developed for Tri. They did a 10 day cycle where 3-5 days were really hard followed by a few days od mass recovery.
different name, same idiot wrote:
god you are a loser.
And I like the guy who talked about doing a couple "really easy days", and then listed a 10 mile day and 20 mile day. Yeah, that's super easy on top of 3 straight 25 mile days. And I also liked his "so you are ONLY doing 140 miles per week but..."
Don't be a jackass. No one "ONLY" does a 140 per week. If that isn't enough mileage for you, then you should stop running.
Skuj, skuj posting as somenone else, and the people argeeing with skuj are all jackasses, ie, skuj is a jackass.
wow ur a tool! jz is jerry ziak who is good friends with skuja. idiot.
By "huge" you mean 10 km, your proposed limit per another of your recent threads, right? So a little day is what, 5 km?
Skuj wrote:
For instance, a Marathoner might do 4 days of 30k+ followed by 3 days of 15k-.
Supercompensation is more easily achieved in this manner.
Cheers
Darren Skuja
Posting as Skuj, no Skuj followed by a dot or two.
I don't think supercompensation is easily achieved your way. Why would you think so?
Since some people think I'm Skuj anyways I'll respond to this one. Coach K, my understanding of supercompensation is that it occurs only when an athlete is recovering from the hard work that is performed not during it. Regular compensation can occur on a day to day basis as long as the athlete is not overtraining, but supercompensation is an effect that can only be achieved with extra rest (I.e., during a period when the athlete is not actively trying to push their training forward on a day to day basis).
At some point in the schedule an athlete wanting to reap the rewards of their training must rest more. The question is, is this achieved more effectively once a month, once every 2 weeks, or perhaps even once a week? Perhaps by avoiding the staleness that sometimes occurs with chronic training and injecting rest more frequently (but at the same ratio as the more traditional methods) the athlete will experience the supercompensation effect more regularly. Of course, the weekly supercompensation effect will be less that the effect of resting one week out of every month, but perhaps the net effect of these mini-recovery periods will actually be larger.
I have read about great athletes (I believe I read is "Running with the Champions" that Kip Keino used to take Saturday and Sunday off or easy) that have used this approach (so I guess I haven't created a whole new paradigm. Damn ...) but on these boards and others all I ever hear about is the obsession with weekly mileage. By taking 2 or 3 low mileage days each week an athlete would have to consciously go against this trend. A tough thing to do when trying anything different than what the world record holder does is considered idiotic.
JZ, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I tend to agree more than disagree with what you have suggested. However, Skuj wrote about 4 consecutive days of 30 km, which I assume he meant as hard days. The problem I see with this is the lack of recovery time. If these truly are hard days then doing four in a row would adversely affect progress, as I see it. I see no problem with taking multiple easy days, or even days off, each week to enhance recovery. But four consecutive challenging days is more likely to beat up a runner than stimulate supercompensation. That's how I see it anyway.
Well then, I agree with you as well. I think if these 4 days were actually really hard then you're right, supercompensation might not occur (unless you're an athlete like Coe; I actually read once that he experimented with 10 days of hard training followed by 4 days easy; can anybody confirm this?). However, if the 4-5 days of "hard" training was equivalent in effort to what you would have been doing if you were doing 3 weeks up/1 week down then, like I wrote above, you might absorb your training more effectively.
The schedule I mentioned a few posts ago under "same training better package" is in fact the same training that I've been doing on my "hard" days; now I'm just using the weekly rest approach as opposed to the monthly approach. I've done this before, but the last time I tried it I must admit that I did fall into the trap of training too hard on my higher volume days. The promise of a couple of easy days each week seduced me into thinking I could push a little harder than usual. I still raced well during that period but, nonetheless, I believe I overdid it a bit. I'm going to try to be more controlled this time around. Cheers,
JZ