what else can i try

Have you tried having somebody pace her? She might just not realize how far she can push herself, so she just turns it down once it starts to hurt. If she's got somebody to hang onto for dear life it might be easier for her to break through that mental barrier.

I would try two very different things. Have her run different distances with no splits just say Ok we're going to run an 800 and all I ask is that you run the second lap faster than the first. If she runs 75-74 that is progress. Another time do a 1,000 that way and then a 1,200 (the pace may be slower but they key is learning to run even pace) then go back to an 800 and I bet she runs a lot faster than she did the first time. She will learn to run by feel and increase her strength.

Once you determine what her goal pace for 800m should be you need to get her to learn what that pace feels like. McMillan says 63 equals a 2:18 but your athlete is lacking strength and endurance so maybe 2:20 is the goal. Have her run 5-6 200's @ 35, then 300's, then 400's at 70, work up the distance she can handle at race pace. One thing that really helped me learn pace was when I had a coach who blew a whistle every 50 meters at the desired pace I was supposed to run. For your athlete that would be every 8.75 seconds for a 2:20 800. It makes workouts easy too because all you have to think about is making it to the next whistle. Hope this helps. Good luck.

yep tried that, just drops off the pacer at about 700 metres. Says her mind just goes blank. So what i'm trying to do with her now is gradually get her to stay on the pace for another, 10,15,20 metres.I let her listen to her

Ipod as well, this helps a bit but theyy won't let her race with it.Seems she just sort of switches off when she get's into difficulty, the docs say there isn't a reason and the girl wants to run fast, she knows she can run fast but blocks up everytime.

How many miles per week is she doing? It sounds like she needs to bump up the mileage a bit to me. Or you might have her try longer interval stuff like 1200's or mile repeats if you haven't already.

thanks i'll try and build that into the schedule,problem is this girl can stroll 200's at 35,if you leave her to herself she'll cakewalk 300's at 47/48 and not even look tired.It's not really about learning pace with her i think it's about understanding what triggers this mental switching off, but i do agree she needs to bump the mileage,trouble is the girl is an honour student and does

days of 9/10 hours at HS and commutes out of town.

Try the whistle coach...trust me it works. Put cones every 50 meters around the track and all she has to think about is making it to the next cone. Also, I read where Michael Johnson ran 8 x200 in 30 sec. (over 10 sec. slower than his 200 pr.) during his strength phase and I'm sure the first few were a stroll for him but by the 8th repeat they're not so easy.

well i sure am going to try the whistle, i've used it before with her,well not the whistle one of those watches that goes bbeep beep every whatever you set it for.

I think one of the main problems with this girl is that she is a perfectionist,she wants to do well at everything she does but if things start going wrong she sorta panics

and ducks out.This could explain why the Ipod seems to cure this slowing down(never tried it on fast track work only long V02 max base reps) it just stops her thinking about anything. Perhaps the whistle will be the same, they're all going to get a dose of whistling come Monday.

let her run natural. stop putting a damper on her. when she gets in races, it will change. you will ruin her with all this whistle, pacer crap. let her run free.

that's just the problem it doesn't change, always the same,

the mental switching off at 700 meters in an 800 or at 1200 in a 1500,it's not time based it's crisis point based. I've had this girl with me since she was about 10 or 11, she had two great years when she was 13 or 14 and

now she can't match those performances, she knows she can do a whole lot better and that's where the problem lies.

That's my role as a coach, to help her through this problem and find a way forward.For your info when she was "running free" at 14 she ran 2.19 for 800 off a handful of miles a week, 10/12 maybe.

If she's of age and hot, go to town on her.

I like the idea of pacing her. You could do it as a time trial. Ask her to focus on a spot on her pacer's back and just hang on. Get her to think about style and relaxing. Don't give her any time checks, just let her get to the end.

You could also try:

at one end of the scale - 1.5 or 2 mile road runs.

at the other end - work on the 400m and do some 600 races or time trials.

and... sit her down and ask her what she really wants to do. Perhaps she's a 200/400 runner?

Hope things go well.

md

thanks again, i don't really think she's a 200/400 runner cos she's an 800/1500 morphotype,pity there's no 600 meters. It is mental i think but to release the mental block, she needs to prove to herself that she can still

run fast over 800m,her mom told me she was classed as "hyperactive" whatever that means when she was a kid .

I think the kids is just a worryer and shuts out everything when it is isn't going her way. I'm going to

try to sort it for her, thanks everybody.

hklop wrote:

If she's of age and hot, go to town on her.

I agree

She just needs more endurance, specific endurance.

When I was younger I could run :56 in the 400m, but couldn't run 1:02/1:01 to save my life. But, I could run 4:27 and 9:32 in the 1600m and 3200m. This is what you're asking, run 6 seconds slower per 400m than your pr. I was never able to run a faster 2nd lap in the 800m. I could run :58/1:07 for a 2:05 or 1:02/1:05.

It has nothing to do with any kind of mental block. Either she's a sprinter type (200/400) or she's an endurance type (1500/3000m). The 800 is just a very hard event to get a hold of.

So your options are either 1. Increase her endurance or 2. Increase her effeciency at running in a state of high fatigue.

1. Is easy, just run more, run mile repeats, tempo runs, etc.

2. Is harder. 200-800m repeats at mile pace. Start with long rests, progess to short rests. You could also do standing rest, this way the acid will pool in the legs and you will prevent the buffering that usually takes place during an active rest (light jogging).

Alan

I used to have a similar problem in high school- there was a crisis point that I turned off and died.

I now believe that the underlying problem was that I simply didn't have any aerobic strength or endurance. Like your girl, it didn't matter if I tried to pace myself at first, I always died near the middle, badly. I expect that you're a better coach than mine were- it was no wonder I had so many problems- I was always running 200s and 400s and never more than 3 miles at a time at practice.

My turnaround came when I upped my mileage and ran hard tempo runs but controlled track workouts. Not everyone responds well to a lot of speedwork, even if they're running relatively short races.

lousy coach wrote:

thanks again, i don't really think she's a 200/400 runner cos she's an 800/1500 morphotype

What does that mean? She's too skinny to run the 400?

Did you ASK her what's wrong? Or what she wants to run? These things matter, you know. Try to look beyond "it's all in her head," because once you decide it's a mental problem, you stop looking at other stuff, like she hates the event, or she's not being trained properly to run the 800.

She wants to run 400 and she's done well (63 in practice, or 63 in a race?).

You can't take her to 800m without her permission and she's demonstrated many times she's just not into that

and shuts down at 700 meters.

Maybe her mouth has not formed the words yet...

"Coach, I don't want to..." or

"Coach, I would prefer not to..."

"Coach, I am not ready for the 800m,"

but she sure has shown you with her deeds and actions.

If it is driving you nuts, maybe you're not much fun to be around and you are starting to stress her out.

If you can't inspire her to believe what you believe

(that the 800 is her event).

Maybe some of these women can...

no this girls wants to run 800; it's all she wants to run.

400 in 63 is just a training ballad for her, if you pushed her she could probably run 57 or 58 but that's not on pole for 400 is it.She likes to race but is too far away from the centre of life to be racing regularily, she ran an 8

last weekend,not so bad after a hardish week in 2.20 but she KNOWS she can run faster cos she's already done it.

I think those that say that i have to up the mileage are right, she's never ever worked really hard on her running

cos she WAS a natural and walzed the kids events with hardly a muscle twitched in anger.I think the problem that we may have fallen inot is that she's on intermediater mileage not big enough to make a difference on endurance but big enough to create some sort of fatigue.I've perhapsd ballsed up by not wanting to push her too hard.

Why not try one of Clyde Hart's sessions.

Get her to run some 800's - preferably on grass - tell her to run the first 400 at a certain pace and then just to continue and finish it off how she can on the second lap. Don't actually give her the whole rep time, and thus not the second lap time. It might teach her to just relax and run the second lap which may help.

If she likes the session and it helps then you can gradually alter it so the second part of the rep is only 200 (giving a total of 600), you'll find that she will then run that part faster without realising.