Bill Rodgers Training Log

Jaegabombs wrote:

Hodgie-San,

Not to get too far off topic but I had a question regarding your own logs. I noticed when reading through the different years that you very rarely seemed to ever take a day off, and although your weekly mileage had peaks and valleys you seemed to consistenly be at 80-90MPW for the whole year without any extended time off to recover. For example after Boston in 79(?) you took one day off, did light jogging the rest of the week and then were back to 80+ the next week...and 105 the week after that! How did you manage to put in so many consistent weeks year after year with just the sporadic day off?

Honestly, running just once and only four miles was enough of a day off for me.

I feel consistency is the most important thing though naturally you can always take a good thing too far.

I was never a very high mileage runner so perhaps I didn't often need blocks of time completely off as some runners like to do.

150mpw wrote:

So are these logs going to be posted or not?

Yes, and soon. I will post a link as soon as we are through and Bill has had a chance to review it.

patti wrote:

I'm looking forward to Billy's training logs. (I don't have mine, my old coach does)

stored in a can of worms I`d bet.

bump

bump!!!!!!

One thing I find interesting is that Bill didn't get much faster from years of high mileage training... he "just" maintained.

He ran 2:09:55 in 1975 and then 2:09:27 in 1979. So 4 years of 120-140 mile weeks didn't really yield much of an improvement. His big jumps, I'm sure, were probably after the first several years of high mileage. Probably got him to a certain level and then it was all about hanging onto that level for as long as possible, making marginal improvements (which probably had more to do with weather, courses, competition, and just how he felt on that day, then actual fitness improvement).

That is actually comforting to me. I want to maximize my potential, but quite frankly, I have other interests in life too. It is reassuring to know that if I put in the time over the next 3 years, averaging 100, 110, 120 mile weeks, that chances are, by the end of that, I'm not going to get much better. To some that may make me not a real runner, but I don't care. I want to run what I need to run to be the best I can be, and then I want to be a jogger who races the best I can off of running 3-4 days a week while sporting a 5 handicap.

I have no desire to run 100+ mile weeks my whole life.... or even 60 mile weeks. 30-40 minutes 3-4 days a week sounds about perfect as far as staying fit and enjoying running for the sake off running (i.e. not enjoying running for the sake of racing).

I am firmly convinced that a top-flight marathoner has a limited number of strenuous efforts in the legs, and that peaks in time generally tend to be reached by about the 4th-6th efforts, relative to the course, conditions, etc. Most are only able to sustain about five years if they are running more than one per year, with some notable exceptions. Personally, I think you probably have roughly a ten-year window to put out about five really great efforts, if you are not overracing. That's one thing that Hall has in his favor. He doesn't seem to race much.

I realize that there are many outliers, but I'd prefer to see guys put in the monster summer base in prep for a fast fall marathon, and then devote spring to cross/track to improve speed and ease up on the legs. Lots of different stimuli and mesocycling in there to sustain longevity and ward off injury. Curiously, while Boston Billy had a long career, he never broke 2:10 but for at Boston.

Noakes posits that marathoners only have 5 or 6 "good" races in them no matter the length of the career, however, Geb seems to be re-writing the book on that since he has run 10 marathons and only 1 of them was really a clunker- and that only by his standards - a 2:09:05 would be a lifetime achievement for most mortals. Also, Noakes doesn't really discuss Rodger's career to any length I know of and his is also contrary to this theory.

In 1981 I saw in the Columbus newspaper that the marathon route passed the end of my street. I took my breakfast and sat on a hill at about the 20 mile mark. BR passed sooned passed. I had never seen a marathon. I had never seen a major league road race. I was shocked at how fast he was moving 20 miles into the race - and he finished seventh!

All these years I had been under the impression that he must have won that race.

BR fan wrote:

The great thing about Bill, including all the esteemed company (from GBTC) he kept back in the glory days is they run using their legs not their mouths as some do today. As good as Ryan Hall did at BAA do remember Bill ran that course even faster many years before.

Ryan Hall runs his mouth? What does this mean?

How would one rank Rodgers' best marathons? Here's 14 of them. I'd think only Bill himself could judge each effort most accurately.

11. 1976 NYC (2:10:10) 1st CR

22. 1979 Boston (2:09:27) 1st AR

12. 1976 Sedo Island, Japan (2:08:23(=2:08:59?)) 1st CR (200 meters short)

18. 1977 Fukuoka (2:10:55) 1st

6. 1975 Boston (2:09:55) 1st AR

19. 1978 Boston (2:10:13) 1st

17. 1977 NYC (2:11:28) 1st

20. 1978 NYC (2:11:28) 1st

24. 1979 NYC (2:12:12) 1st

25. 1980 Boston (2:12:11) 1st

16. 1977 Amsterdam, Holland (2:12:46) 1st CR

28. 1981 Houston-Tennaco (2:12:10) 1st CR

37. 1982 Big M, Melbourne, Austrialia (2:11:08) 1st

8. 1975 Fukuoka (2:11:26) 3rd

I've read through BR's logs that are posted on Hodgie-San's website and I don't see many workouts. Did he not perform weekly workouts of the short interval and longer interval variety? Or was it mostly steady mileage and races?

If you've read through the logs why would you need to ask a question like this?

Well, HRE, maybe I am looking for clarification or another source to confirm it? Perhaps even spark a discussion on his training methods.

Your response added nothing of value.

tired runner wrote:

I've read through BR's logs that are posted on Hodgie-San's website and I don't see many workouts. Did he not perform weekly workouts of the short interval and longer interval variety? Or was it mostly steady mileage and races?

Workouts on the track came reguarly about once a week with races every few weeks.

Most of the races amounted to "workouts" very specific "practice" racing.

So, along with all the consistent mileage a regular dose of race pace, or near race pace running.

Very simple approach, if you have the head, heart and stomach for it.

If you want a discussion why would you not say so? As for wanting clarification or another source to confirm what's in the log, that's what I don't get. What could anyone asy that would be moer clear than what's in the log? I wasn't trying to add anything to the discussion. I'm trying to figure out what you'er thinking and understand the question.

Hodgie-San,

Thanks for the response. I realize you were around when all of this was happening and I value your contributions.

This style, or training approach, does not seem to be used that often anymore. I imagine very few coaches would tell runners to aspire to this type of training. It seems that today's prevailing coaching methods revolve around hitting key workouts (2 or 3?) times a week and only race when you are ready to bust a good one out.

As you say, a simple approach if you have the head, heart and stomach for it...

hey hodgie-sans, great website! was wondering, 1978 BR dominated the road scene, and after that you said yourself that the workouts changed a little bit? any chance you have permission to post some more of his logs? THANKS

mmm21? wrote:

hey hodgie-sans, great website! was wondering, 1978 BR dominated the road scene, and after that you said yourself that the workouts changed a little bit? any chance you have permission to post some more of his logs? THANKS

Don't want to be "that guy" that brings back old threads, but Billy is one of my all time favorite runners. Hodgie-san, is there any chance you can post the logs from 1978 and onward?