Female high jumpers are thinner than most elite distance runners

Let's use something a bit more scientific: body mass index.

http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmi-m.htm

Distance runner (@ 1.60 and 45kg): 17.6 BMI

M. Skotnik @ 1.82 and 59kg: 17.8

Amy Acuff @ 1.88 and 66kg: 18.7

Tia Hellebaut @ 1.82 and 62kg: 18.7

Etc.

In other words, the BMI for the high jumpers is typically at or *above* the BMI for the distance runners. So ghost is WRONG in saying: "Overall they are thinner in relation to their height compared with elite distance runners."

The exceptions are Slesarenko, at 16.9 BMI; Lalakova, at 16.8; and Chichecova, at 16.7. Most of the high jumpers are in fact in the 18's and 19's; Vlasic is at 20.1.

The high jumpers are quite "linear," no question. Thinner than ghost's "typical distance runner"? No.

The bronze medalist in the MEN'S high jump, Kyriakos Ioannou from Cyprus, has them all beat. He's 6' 4" (1.93 meters) and 132 pounds (60 kilograms), with a body mass index of 16.1. And he looks surprisingly good.

Do you actually think that these athletes are being truthful about their weight?

Chicherova BMI 16.72 (metrics above; I believe NBC said 5'10", 110). Crazy. Former ballet dancer, which might tell you a lot.

Vlasic, on the other hand, is 6'4", 165. That's what I'm talking about. Google her to see the hottest athlete of the championships.

Vlasic and many of the other female jumpers have some seriously delicious legs.

No - you are the one who is wrong - most elite female distance runners (and males) are well above '18' on the BMI scales, so the female high jumpers are, on average, 'thinner' than the 'average' elite distance runners. Just look at the numbers. The 1.60/45kg is one of the Japanese female distance runners, and they tend to be exceptionally skinny.

Ghost in Korea

Most world class elite distance runners fall in the 19-21 range (BMI) very few score below '18' which is classified as seriously underweight.

The point I was trying to make is that it is curious to have athletes in a 'technical/power' event who are thinner than distance runners.

And there seems to be a trend that the high jumpers (especially female) are getting thinner.

Ghost in Korea

christophe_moulton@yahoo.ca

The reason for female high jumpers being so thin is that when they jump, they try to catch an air drift to float over the bar.

I haven't seen any anorexic high jumpers at major championships. However, amongst the runners, it's a different story.

ghost wrote:

No - you are the one who is wrong - most elite female distance runners (and males) are well above '18' on the BMI scales, so the female high jumpers are, on average, 'thinner' than the 'average' elite distance runners. Just look at the numbers. The 1.60/45kg is one of the Japanese female distance runners, and they tend to be exceptionally skinny.

Ghost in Korea

Okay, I can buy that--except that you specifically spoke of 1.60/45 as "typical" in your original post. In English, "typical" means something like "average" or "representative of a group"--not "exceptionally" in one direction or another.

This was how I finished my first post: "The high jumpers are quite 'linear,' no question. Thinner than ghost's 'typical distance runner'? No." That conclusion was correct. If *your* selection of 1.60/45 as "typical" was wrong, so be it!

* * *

However, I remember a nice statistical study from back in the day (20 years ago? Back when the USSR was still in business, anyway). Someone averaged the heights/weights/times of the top 10 Soviet and top 10 US females in each of the middle-distance and distance events. Within each group, just as you'd expect, average heights and weights decreased as the distance increased.

But there were some differences. At each distance, the two groups were identical--to the centimeter--in average height; the Americans were significantly lighter (by some 3-4kg); and the Soviets were significantly faster. In other words, the "fatter" Soviet runners ran better times!

Of course, the SU runners weren't fat at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the skinfold calipers demonstrated that they were actually *leaner* (carried a lower bodyfat percentage) than were the Americans. The point is that the Soviets' extra weight "paid its way" by increasing their power and making them faster runners.

Similarly, I don't have a problem with elite high jumpers' *actually* being skinnier than elite distance runners of the same sex. There are some solid arguments in favor of just that result. (And I agree, it is interesting.) I think, in part, it's an artifact of the universal adoption of the flop hj style: Now, the focus is conversion of speed to height; then, top jumpers were still pretty tall but also needed more sheer muscle to straddle high heights.

Sure they are...

http://osaka2007.iaaf.org/photo/gallery.html#41480

"Female high jumpers are thinner than most elite distance runners"

And that's beacause most of the European HJer's are chain smokers.

Interesting post, ghost. I believe, however, that your metric gives one more of a sense of how lanky the athlete is, which isn't exactly the same as how THIN the athlete is. I certainly agree that the high jumpers are crazy lanky. In fact, I often refer to the hj as the "lanky contest."

It is relatively easy to have a big height minus weight difference when you are a 6'3" woman or 6'7" man. For a 5'1 (155cm) female distance runner to have the 23 point differential of someone like Palaman, she would have to weigh 32kg (70 lbs) which is clearly absurd. While Palaman has a bmi of 18.1 (which is indeed very low), our hypothetical 5'1 70 pounder has a bmi of 13.2!! To have a bmi of 18.1 at 5'1 would require a weight of 97 lbs. This is certainly not unusual for an elite female runner. When it comes to plain old skinnyness, it seems to me as though the distance runners have the high jumpers beaten (by a little).

Agreed, very bad metric being used. Even worse than a strict height/weight comparison due to not considering % change, which itself is pretty horrible. Obviously someone 4 feet, 100 pounds is pretty fat but someone 8 feet, 200 pounds would be crazy thin (exaggeration to illustrate the idea).

just to let you know, BMI is bull shit and not very good at being scientific. It may give an indication but not anything else. It does not account for lean muscle mass, fat tissue, bone density, ect. only height and weight. the 200lb body builder has the same BMI as the 200lb fatass given they are the same height.

This could explain why I only used the term "a bit more scientific" in suggesting the BMI as superior to ghost's ad hoc metric.

BMI is indeed quite limited. In fact, it doesn't distinguish between the sexes, either; and, for reasons that d2 gave, while a woman who's 5-8/160lb might look rather porky, a man of the same height/weight could very well be considered of medium build. Both get the same BMI!

However: given that the two groups are both 100% female; given that both groups tend to be light-boned; and given that both groups carry very little adipose tissue, BMI is not a "bull shit" metric for comparing the two.

This could explain why I only used the terms "Indication" and "just to let you know"

It would be interesting to know what kind of diet and training regime the female high jumpers stick to, to maintain that extreme lean physique.

Distance runners, of course, lose weight as a matter of course, because they run so much, with varying intensities and the calorie expenditures are huge for distance runners, up to 5000 calories a day or more, depending on the distances covered and other exercises accomplished. Of course, many elite distance runnners from developing nations do not consume that amount of calories, because of economic constraints and habit. The Kenyan runners, who typically train 3 times per day during periods of the year in preparation for championships, usually only have a couple of slices of toast with jelly and a couple of cups of tea for breakfast, after the 6am 45-60 mins run.

The lunch of the Kenyans after the main session of the day at 10am, is also relatively light, with a typical Kenyan lunch consisting of rice and beans, followed by cups of hot sweet tea. No desserts or sweet foods in Kenya. Coke and soft drinks are very rarely consumed, but beer is popular, even with elites, on occasion.

The evening repast for Kenyans is the main meal of the day, with corn meal (ugali) with meat stew and vegetables. Often a glass of whole milk, and tea will accompany the meal. No desserts in Kenya.

One gets the feeling that many of those Kenyan elites are in calorie defecit mode, but their bodies are efficient and used to working on reduced calories.

High jumpers do not run much distance, because distance running is not a good transfer skill for the high jump, in addition to the fact that distance running diminishes the ability to spring and be dynamic from the ground.

For that reason, one imagines that high jumpers concentrate on power, and resistance exercises. A lot of core strength exercises as well. Their general athleticism is mind boggling, considering how lanky they are.

The elite high jumpers have atypical ectomorph builds in that their power to weight ratios are much more developed compared with 'typical' ectomorphs who habitually have poor or very poor power to weight ratios.

Ghost in Korea

christophe_moulton@yahoo.ca

I love Scandinavian women, but I'd have to think long and hard before I ever hit that.

Frank Blendswell wrote:

Sure they are...

http://osaka2007.iaaf.org/photo/gallery.html#41480