LAGAT BUSTED!!!! - Kenya Daily Nation Article

As a hard working post collegiate runner, I feel cheated by the whole system. I choose to run clean, in order to challenge myself and meet my goals fairly. It's just hard to meet those goals when the top of the field is all cluttered up with cheaters. I'm not as gifted as some people are, but I know that if I work hard, I have a chance at qualifying for US Nationals.........but those chances get slimmer and slimmer with every weak-minded pride-less fake that decides to use drugs to win.

on a different note:

I think there are many top runners on drugs, but some just have better ways of masking their drugs.

maybe hundreds of athletes should all be quarantined for a while (so the masking agets wear out) and then they should all be tested at once.

lagat probably wasn't always on drugs. he was once a hard working talented runner........but he felt he had to cheat in order to catch up with El G. how can El G not be cheating? morocco has more money to cover up drugs than Kenya does. (see all the questions that are raised because of all this? )

It is all on the attitude that you have. You SHOULD be incouraged that WADA caught Lagat. American distance runners are clean, that is why they are at the back of the international pack. I was at the World Championships in Paris and can tell you that no one in the M 1500M final is clean. Maybe 5 of the M 10,000M final are clean. I will put money on the fact that there was one in the M5000m final that is clean. Your biggest problem is that the standards were set based on dirty times.

Repoxy wrote:

It is all on the attitude that you have. You SHOULD be incouraged that WADA caught Lagat. American distance runners are clean, that is why they are at the back of the international pack. I was at the World Championships in Paris and can tell you that no one in the M 1500M final is clean. Maybe 5 of the M 10,000M final are clean. I will put money on the fact that there was one in the M5000m final that is clean. Your biggest problem is that the standards were set based on dirty times.

So essentially you are say Haile is dirty, because he set both these standards....

Also I would like to point out that EPO is so 2 years ago, that it would indicate that if Lagat is guilty he was doing it as an individual effort, not as part of an Kenyan conspiracy. If there was a Kenyan conspiracy, he would be on better undectable drugs or simply just blood doping which is completely undetectable and only lacks in popularity becuause it is cost prohibitive.

Also to the jackass that was talking about EPO cycles...EPO only works if it's your your red blood cell count is still high during the competition. It isn't a steriod. You might get a little extra hard training out of it if you take it off season but the effects are minimal unless taken close enough to competition date...

D_Gordon wrote:

If, someday, drugs get legalized, that's the day I say the hell with it and try to improve my golf handicap (probably 50 or worse) to something reasonable, or possibly return to my first love, chess. At least there drugs don't help.

Not so fast. Beta-blockers can help with the "yips" in putting. Golfers have been known to indulge.

Chess...hmmm. Red Bull?

SoupNazi wrote:

you have to be suspicious of anyone who rises out of nowhere (performance-wise) to the elite level.

Given that a one-season drop from, say, 13:30 to 12:55 (especially after a preceding plateau period) has become almost as much as a trigger of suspicion for doping as withdrawing from a major meet at the last minute, maybe we'll see athletes getting wise and sandbagging to some extent to allow for more gradual improvement. 13:30 guy goes on the juice, and that combined with natural improvement has him in 12:55 shape but he half-asses a few 13:20's and 13:10's over a period of time, maybe a whole season, before going to the well. Maybe a doubtful scenario, but these guys and gals and their coaches need to start using their brains as well as they use their syringes if they want to continue being shady.

My guess is many already sandbag their times down gradually to avoid suspicion. Especially those under the tutelage of big-time agents. These guys didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday, like some of us just now waking up to the problem. I would bet that the problem, however, is some of the athletes just can't be reined in no matter what, or let it go to their heads. You get that juice running through your veins, you feel like a superman, and I'll bet it would be very tempting to just let 'er rip.

So many of you talk as if this is a "new" problem. Look at the track results from the late 70's and 80's, especially for East European women, then look at Kersee's and Tellez's athletes from the 80's. Druggie MS. Anna Guervo (sp?) just ran a sub 49 second 400, something not done since the 80's in the open event - and low and behold she has teeth BRACES. I find it an odd time to get your teeth fixed - time when the photo opportunities are constant, like getting braces just before your wedding or something.

It is only the drugs that have changed, not the usage. EPO has aided the distance events like never before - but come on people - didn't you figure that out when it started to take a 2:08 to finish in the top 40 at London Marathon? Training hasn't gotten that much better in the last 20 years! As for Radcliff and the Kenyan women being clean? I say bullshit. I don't have proof, but if your going to be beating the druggies, you must be on something yourself. Just my opinion of course.

The fact that Track and Field is busting people will only drive the distance athletes over to the dirty road race scene where practically no testing is done. The sprinters will have to try out for "Gladiators" .......

I have repeatedly posted about my disgust with the elite levels of the sport, so this really doesn't faze me. There is no one at or near the top that I would be surprised to hear had tested positive. NO ONE.

The sport that we all love has simply become a joke at the elite level. We have the credibility of the WWF, in my opinion. World records now have almost a cartoon-like quality to them that are so absurd. 12:57 for the second half of a 10,000? 7:20 for 3,000 meters? 12:39 for 5,000 meters? 3:26 for 1500?

Does anyone REALLY believe that is ONLY talent, training and courage?

Bottom line: If you REALLY want to be world class. . .then you have a choice to make.

Lagat testing positive is very surprising. I for one believe almost all Kenyans run honestly-no drugs. However this world is a very dangerous place. EPO is administered by injection. How can we trust doctors anymore especially the mischievious ones. Lagat and many others could be innocent but how do you prove your innocence in such a case?

Kip Kangogo wrote:

Lagat testing positive is very surprising. I for one believe almost all Kenyans run honestly-no drugs. However this world is a very dangerous place. EPO is administered by injection. How can we trust doctors anymore especially the mischievious ones. Lagat and many others could be innocent but how do you prove your innocence in such a case?

what? some doc is going to inject you unsuspectingly with a performance enhancing drug? are you thinking the athlete thinks this is a weekly tetanus shot or something?

Please leave Lagat alone. Who is clean anymore? it is all about time, there was poor timing of performing the whole thing befor the championship.How is anyone surpose to belief that the big time guys like ElGorouj IS clean? as I said, IT IS ALL A MATTER OF TIME AND EVERYTHING HAS ITS DAY OF DISCOVERY discovered when something slight fail, So please could U leave lagat alone? this is not a murderer'S case as some of you haters are celebrating, shame to all haters who get excited with this matter coz they know that Lagat is rich, this is jealousy, so STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. remember that this is all but business, IT IS ALL ABOUT PUTTING FOOD ON YOUR TABLE NOT JUST A COMPETITION. Watch before U utter anything, think and don't criticize as if You have never failed in something before.This is not fun.

Really, I would think that Lagat is educated enough to not let some "sneaky" doctor inject something into him. Well, you would hope anyway.

That being said, this news bummed me out.

Who is Lagat's agent and what is the word coming from him?

imma jayro wrote:

Please leave Lagat alone. Who is clean anymore? it is all about time, there was poor timing of performing the whole thing befor the championship.How is anyone surpose to belief that the big time guys like ElGorouj IS clean? as I said, IT IS ALL A MATTER OF TIME AND EVERYTHING HAS ITS DAY OF DISCOVERY discovered when something slight fail, So please could U leave lagat alone? this is not a murderer'S case as some of you haters are celebrating, shame to all haters who get excited with this matter coz they know that Lagat is rich, this is jealousy, so STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. remember that this is all but business, IT IS ALL ABOUT PUTTING FOOD ON YOUR TABLE NOT JUST A COMPETITION. Watch before U utter anything, think and don't criticize as if You have never failed in something before.This is not fun.

I don't think anyone thinks it is fun nor funny. It is a disappointment and we are discussing it. Gee, I put food on the table by going to work everyday and taking no drugs (but do use Pop Tarts on occassion - heard they might be on the banned list).

I have no clue as to whether Lagat is rich or not, never crossed my mind. If I failed at something because I did something illegal, then I would expect people not only to ridicule me, but to criticize me for it. He isn't some untouchable. He'll get over it just as soon as the drugs leave his system. Then he will go out and get a job, or live in his car. His choice. He was busted, not us.

Check out the front page story, tried to contact Lagat and his agent, but no go. Letsrun did talk to his Li though.

http://www.letsrun.com/2003/lagatepo.php

atrrunner wrote:

Wow I really didn't expect that from you legalizit. All of these special training methods you prescribe to, shall we just say screw it and take the drugs?

No, I wouldn't say screw it and do drugs, if you feel it's wrong. You must be true to yourself, your mind, and that's my point here. People do what they feel they have to do. I support free will. We are all one great spirit here moving about in seperate bodies to collect as much information on the human experience as possible. Earth is a temporary pad that we are kicking back in, and I stress temporary, so I believe we ought to do what we want and learn from that, it's why we are here. Of course, doing what one wants to, and accepting natures consequences, is only justifiable so long it does not cause harm to another.

Whether or not Lagat has harmed others can be debated forever, as many will say he took away their chance to shine or make a living. Listen, you don't get into pro-bodybuilding and expect to make a living without an enhanced body. Running is not so bad, you CAN make a living with a clean body(I still believe there is more potential in being clean than being on steroids because it leads to a purer and more efficient mind/body, we just havn't gotten to the point where efficiency is more important than power, yet i feel the time is upon us as the sacred feminine draws ever nearer), BUT you must be creative as all hell with your training and have faith in yourself and what you are doing. What Bernard Lagat, and many others wanting to experience the elite life, have done should not be looked down upon just because you wouldn't do that to your body. I still believe that legalizing these types of things would be better for the athletes health, as more information would be available and the doctors administering these things probably wouldn't do so at such extreme levels. Many of these athletes likely have no idea what they are even doing to themselves, they just want to do it and get on with it, and that is what is a shame. Had they known, had the education been there, I believe we wouldn't see the elite athletes doping until after they've gone beyond the tailend of their physical peak, say in their mid-30's and at the longer distances maybe even early 40's. Beyond those ages elite level training often is too much for the regenerative capabilities of the bodies muscular/connective tissues, and this fact coupled with the athletes past 25 years+ of training and research that would lead to acceptable AAS usage, IF they wanted to continue at those levels or possibly go beyond.

By the way, I can recall reading about someone being busted for stimulants in chess, so once again, you can not escape competing against those that you consider "dirty". It comes down to being happy with yourself and not putting your self worth in whether or not you beat somebody else at a competition.

Pampiniform Plexus wrote:

D_Gordon wrote:

If, someday, drugs get legalized, that's the day I say the hell with it and try to improve my golf handicap (probably 50 or worse) to something reasonable, or possibly return to my first love, chess. At least there drugs don't help.

Not so fast. Beta-blockers can help with the "yips" in putting. Golfers have been known to indulge.

Chess...hmmm. Red Bull?

I know this is off topic, but:

It's a bit more difficult to think of something that would help a chess player. If you play chess, you need to be focused, but not over-excited (from caffeine, which I assume is the key ingredient of Red Bull, I've never had the stuff) or over-calm (from depressants, such as alcohol.) Anything aside from your normal focus can distort your game, possibly improving it, probably weakening it.

Then again, it's pretty exhausting to sit through a four or five-hour game (I know, I've been there many times.) Maybe there is a market for EPO in chess. ;-)

Interestingly, the world chess federation was trying some time ago to get chess into the Olympics (why? So it could get less coverage than track?) and a lot of players were upset with the idea of mandatory drug tests for things like steroids which wouldn't help a chess player in any way.

And I wasn't referring to drugs in golf, only chess. I have no idea about drugs in golf.

From what I've read in the news, I believe some agents have much more to do with possibly pressuring the athletes to go the EPO way than the athletes themselves. The Kenyan Federation has stated that the agents are ruining good Kenyan athletes. They're overracing them, doping them, and I am wondering how it is they're not banned. They are the suppliers of the drugs, they are the ones that bring the thought of drugs into the equation. If you ask me, we should eliminate agents from track and field or atleast let only respected agents into this.

note: I am in no way saying all agents try and get atheletes to dope.

Yeah, I'm sure the governments don't like the national glory that comes from distance running dominance. I bet they'll ban the agents.