your such a f***ing idiot, im sure he runs more than 10 miles for his long runs. a highschooler doing 50 mile weeks can do that. not to add that hes a 3:30 1500 runner, not a highschooler.
your such a f***ing idiot, im sure he runs more than 10 miles for his long runs. a highschooler doing 50 mile weeks can do that. not to add that hes a 3:30 1500 runner, not a highschooler.
he not a distance runner, he is a MIDDLE DISTANCE runner.
he mainly does speed work on the track, and keeps his mileage low. the only reason he does any type of "mileage" is so he can recovery from all of the speed work he does.
nice smooth aerobic running and aquatherapy are the best 2 ways to recover the soreness that fast track running causes.
if it was up to him and razco, he would be doing speed intervals everyday. mileage really serves no physiological purpose for milers. i know several elites, and myself, only do mileage so we can recover quicker and be ready to do our next hardcore track workout/race.
Mr. Kite wrote:
not to add that hes a 3:30 1500 runner, not a highschooler.
That statement alone does not make any sense.
By the way, just because you're a 3:30 1500 runner, does not mean you graduated, those are two totally different things that do not correlate.
sfdasfd wrote:
Mr. Kite wrote:not to add that hes a 3:30 1500 runner, not a highschooler.
That statement alone does not make any sense.
By the way, just because you're a 3:30 1500 runner, does not mean you graduated, those are two totally different things that do not correlate.
just cause he said high schooler, doesnt mean that the poster is referring to a high school student. He never said "student". He was referring to an ability level. use your context clues man
the430miler wrote:
mileage really serves no physiological purpose for milers.
You better let Webb know about this ASAP. It looks like he wasted his time doing all of those 80 mile weeks. Perhaps he'd be running 3:23 for the 1500 if he just did short fast workouts everyday.
the430miler wrote:
...i know several elites, and myself, only do mileage so we can recover quicker and be ready to do our next hardcore track workout/race.
Did he just lump himself in the same sentence as elites?
A quick review:
Webb ran faster as a HS kid than anyone in history-- on
just half (or less)the weekly miles some people still insist a runner actually needs.
Webb ups miles at Mich and gets injured.
Then, cuts his miles and gets faster.
Webb ups miles for the 5k/10k and gets anemic and injured.
He cuts back his miles and gets faster.
he ran 800m 147++ and 337+ (~fastest 1500m split from 3:53)
he ran 800m 146 and 332++ 1500m
he ran 800m 145++ and 330+ 1500m
do you see the trends?
If he breaks the US record it will be around the time he also hits 800m in 1:44's.
To answer the original poster, Webb doesnt actually need 10 mile runs at all, but if and when he does them as you describe, they are likely down near 50-52' range as w/ Maree and Moorcroft.
His bread and butter is <13:20 5k pace running, high qaulity running.
A riddle:
If a kid runs 130 miles/week, how many 60" 400m reps, starting on 2', can he complete?
The answer is you cant say, because volume alone tells you nothing.
dsrunner wrote:
Webb ups miles at Mich and gets injured.
he didn't get hurt during xc, when his miles were high. he got hurt in early indoor season during a hill sprint workout... on low mileage.
Then, cuts his miles and gets faster.
actually, he cut his mileage for the 2003 season and focused on speed. he ran 3:44 for the 1500 that year.
THEN he upped his mileage and ran some XC races, and ran 3:35 for the 1500 (3:50 mile) and won the US olympic trials.
THEN he upped his mileage even further and ran 3:32 for the 1500, 3:48.9 for the mile, and 8:11 for the 2mi, won the US trials and made the final at worlds.
Webb ups miles for the 5k/10k and gets anemic and injured.
he continued the mileage progression from the previous two years, but runs a 10k on the track instead of XC. he develops anemia (possibly from the 10k and subsequent lack of recovery) and injured.
He cuts back his miles and gets faster.
he did not, in fact, cut back his miles. his basework was as high volume as the previous year, but the in-season workouts are more speed-oriented than strength-oriented.
do you see the trends?
do YOU see the trends? he and his coach understand that the training that got him to 3:35 won't get him to 3:32, the training that got him to 3:32 won't get him to 3:30, and so on and so forth. he has been developing a base over the years to allow him to do the workouts he needs to improve. each year the workload increases. you've got to increase SOMETHING (volume, intensity, speed, etc.) every year or you stagnate. it seems he's found his "sweet spot" for volume, and now the workouts are falling into place- hence the sudden improvement in his speed and kick, back to where it was in high school when he was low-volume.
so, to recap: he has the speed and kick he had in high school, but is WAY stronger because of the added volume. it sounds like he and raczko know what they're doing. you sure don't.
the430miler,
Honestly, you suck so I don't know why you are talking about what good milers do because you can't become a good miler yourself. I have a horrible amount of leg speed and can barely compete in the 10k and i have done workouts of 4xmile at or under 4:30 per mile.
I run an average paced 10 miler at 6:00 pace, Webb would have to fight to hold back enough to run with me. And i am sure he does at least one 10 mile run per week.
PhysMech wrote:
Using the VDOT table in Daniel's Running Formula, AW is around a 81.5 VDOT. Since he probably rarely does medium 10 mile runs, let's use 81 to look up his paces.
His E (easy) pace is 5:46 per mile.
His T (threshold) pace is 4:38 per mile.
Just as some golf pros said of Tiger Woods when he first came on tour, he plays a game which I am unfamiliar with.
Sorry but not for a 10 mile run
the430miler wrote:
he not a distance runner, he is a MIDDLE DISTANCE runner.
he mainly does speed work on the track, and keeps his mileage low. the only reason he does any type of "mileage" is so he can recovery from all of the speed work he does.
nice smooth aerobic running and aquatherapy are the best 2 ways to recover the soreness that fast track running causes.
if it was up to him and razco, he would be doing speed intervals everyday. mileage really serves no physiological purpose for milers. i know several elites, and myself, only do mileage so we can recover quicker and be ready to do our next hardcore track workout/race.
You certainly don't know much about training do you? No wonder you can't get any faster. I wouldn't expect you to know who Peter Snell is but he routinely ran 20 mile runs and was the olympic champ in the 800 meters and world record holder in the mile. According to Lydiard he was "basically the slowest runner in the Tokyo 800 final but was trained to run a fine marathon, but I doubt his competitors were."
BTW what do you think "nice smooth aerobic running" is?
Hey Bleebs, was it something I said? Maybe you're depleted from that long run?
He did run 353 on low volume, right? At least we agree on something.... I think we're making real progress.
Webb was injured at Mich and was set back.
When injured he was doing a standard Mich training session, on a strength oriented training schedule which was not optimal for him. It was not a speed session where he was injured, but rather a strength type hill session. Not a knock on the system there, just wasnt for him. One size doesnt fit all.
Yes he went back to a rebuild his speed -- and stamina-- thats what traiing is. He ran 30-60mpw (his HS volume). It took more than a full season to get back to faster than HS times because he had been knocked back so far.
http://www.dyestat.com/3us/college/webb-at-home.htm
No he is not training high volume. More than HS yes, but not nearly as high as some still insist he needs to succeed, and certainly not as high as it has been. His anemia was due to dieting and the heavy training, but in either case he was trying to be something he is not.
His 1500m progression is directly tied to his improved speed at 800m and getting back to an intensity focus. Here's a bit on Webb from after nationals:
"...Webb, along with his coach Scott Raczko, has added more speed training after two years of focusing mostly on building his endurance.
“After I ran that 10-K last spring that was the end of two years of longer stuff,”
Many runners continue base training year after year, piling on miles without favorable result. Additional miles assure nothing.
But then what do I know?
dsrunner wrote:
But then what do I know?
You don't know the facts, that's for sure.
His first year as a pro was a disaster because he tried to do what worked in high school. The next year he bumped his mileage up during the fall and winter and you know the rest of the story.
??????? wrote:
PhysMech wrote:Using the VDOT table in Daniel's Running Formula, AW is around a 81.5 VDOT. Since he probably rarely does medium 10 mile runs, let's use 81 to look up his paces.
His E (easy) pace is 5:46 per mile.
His T (threshold) pace is 4:38 per mile.
Just as some golf pros said of Tiger Woods when he first came on tour, he plays a game which I am unfamiliar with.
Sorry but not for a 10 mile run
PhysMech <--- pulls out his feeding spoon...
So I guess a medium effort pace would be around 5:10 per mile then.