Couples without kids are selfish?

oonope wrote:

See, the difference is that people with kids do not care about your kind. You hardly exist in our eyes. We ignore you and your little lives of self-congratulation.

We will ignore you forever.

Likewise. But given the current trends in our society, there soon be more of us than you. Once that happens, I guess it will be your turn to be penalized for your life choices while we are rewarded for ours.

Feel free to ignore us then too. Your attention wont be missed.

Alright, I just want to say that I think not having kids is selfish, BUT I would also say that having kids is selfish as well. I think both choices, whether you choose kids or no kids has a small amount of selfishness in them. Think about it, people generally have kids because they want them. They want all the "cute" things that come along and they want recognition as being a parent. Also, people who don't have kids often choose not to have them so they can focus more on their career or each other and so their money can go to things they think will make their lives more enjoyable.

I also think that whether you choose to have kids or not, this choice can be seen as selfless. For example if you choose not to have kids it may be because you don't feel you can give a child the a good life or be a good parent/guardian to them. You may choose not to have kids because you want to give them opportunities that you may not be able to give them due to money or other issues. In contrast it can be selfless to have kids because you are putting someones life before your own, devoting much of your time an money into raising a human being.

I think that it is wrong for somone who has kids to say that someone is selfish for deciding not to have children. Maybe that couple did TRY to have kids, but couldn't. Maybe there are other issues that no one knows about the couple. I think it's also important that people who do not have kids realize that simply because they made the choice not to have kids, doesn't make their life any better or worse. I guess what I am trying to say, is someday we have to realize that everyone is different. How one persons perceives something is entirely different from another. I think that when we finally can do this we will avoid this lame internet thread bashing about who is right and wrong.

I think that it is also important that we DO question. Maybe ask a couple, Did you ever think of having children? Why or why not? etc. and that the ones be questioned not take it personally and remind themselves that this person may just be curious.

I'll step down from my soap box now....

just a suggestion wrote:

Likewise. But given the current trends in our society, there soon be more of us than you. Once that happens, I guess it will be your turn to be penalized for your life choices while we are rewarded for ours.

Feel free to ignore us then too. Your attention wont be missed.

You are so wrong.

Your type sits around thinking about us all of the time. This thread is proof.

Of course our attention won't be missed, you never had it to begin with.

You will never outnumber us, that is a little pipe dream of yours. It would fly in the face of nature.

Go live your sad little life.

happy camper wrote:

but there is no way you could take this kind of time off to run without getting fired! it's society placing value on one person's ambitions over another. not really fair if you don't want kids or are not in the position to have them.

I am not sure what kind/how much time we are talking about, but I leave early two days a week for track workouts, and run at lunch most days.

I don't get fired.

selfish is natural wrote:

I guess what I am trying to say, is someday we have to realize that everyone is different. How one persons perceives something is entirely different from another. I think that when we finally can do this we will avoid this lame internet thread bashing about who is right and wrong.

post of the day

oonope wrote:

You are so wrong.

Your type sits around thinking about us all of the time. This thread is proof.

Of course our attention won't be missed, you never had it to begin with.

You will never outnumber us, that is a little pipe dream of yours. It would fly in the face of nature.

Go live your sad little life.

Owned!

happy camper wrote:

dmb wrote:

No it's not ridiculous. To put it in perspective for you: her desire to get pregnant is infinitely greater than your desire to run. And we all know that everyone on letsrun runs 120 miles a week on singles and chews nails for breakfast.

but there is no way you could take this kind of time off to run without getting fired! it's society placing value on one person's ambitions over another. not really fair if you don't want kids or are not in the position to have them.

I understand your point. I agree with many people here that it should not be ok to offload your work on other people because of your familial obligations. I was merely commenting on the strength of biological imperative.

The other thing that I was commenting on was the nastiness of the office gossipthat posted on here. How does he or she know what arrangements have been made? Maybe the person is doing extra work at home, etc. It's easy to sit and bitch about people in the office and tout one's self righteousness, etc. If there is one thing that seems to characterize many of the childless people posting here, it is a lack of empathy. I'm really glad that I have ajob where I can make my own hours and don't have to engage in this kind of nasty office politicking.

Baby Maker 69 wrote:

You still don`t get it. The only reason you can live happily with your after tax income, without kids, is because the strong economy. When the economy begins to struggle due to lack of labour (which by the way is very much going to be HUGE problem)your childless lifestyle will suffer also.

There has to be incentive to have children (aka. tax funded social support), otherwise if everyone did what felt right in this material country, no one would have kids.

Did I strike a nerve you mullet-cut-off-shirt-capri-pant-man-purse-wearing dick bag?

So you're telling me that you're disregarding all of the posts from the parents on this thread that acknowledge how much they are sacrificing for the joys of parenthood? That the western world is so materialistic that no one wants kids anymore and this is a dire threat? The only reason this thread started is because the childless are in the minority here and feel as though they are looked down upon by the majority.

Great, we should model ourselves after the French who have all these great incentives to have kids but have no jobs for them when they come of age. Go back to burning cars and believing everything your media tells you.

An economy's robustness cannot be reduced to the simple terms you have reduced it to.

Of course you make sense, but you have to look at who you are dealing with.

These childless, pro-abortion elitists think they know everything.

They have their heads in the clouds, with no grasp on reality. They are so ignorant, you really cannot have a rational discussion with them.

It is sad, and they should be pitied.

So stop with sensible posts and humor them a little. They enjoy these threads, it makes them feel like they actually contribute to society in some way.

We all know they really just sit alone at home and brood.

I do not have kids but I see absolutely nothing that points to the "fact" that people without kids are becoming the majority. I think that's far from true. I'd actually say more people (Americans, we're talking about) are having kids than were doing so ten or 15 years ago. What is likely true is that many people may have stop at two children, not the 3.2 or whatever that was the norm a generation or two ago. But I'm not even sure about that ... I know many instances of people who, after a respite of sort, have their third child at about 40.

I don't think a decision to have or have not children is any occasion for self-congratulation. I didn't have children because I knew, for a variety of reasons based on my life experience and family history, that it would not be a good idea to do have them. I have regrets, but given only TWO choices, it was the better one. I don't expect or deserve either congratulation or condemnation.

Actually, child-less individuals are not necessarily a minority. It is a FACT that we have negative population growth in the US and almost all industrialized countries. Without immigration we are SHRINKING. You cannot argue this. The birth rate is 1.5, a rate of 2.3 is required to break even.

If you think that simply opening the doors to immigration will solve our problems you are wrong. 1) these immigrants are often not skilled labour 2) ofthen those who are skilled, their degrees are not recognized in the US and 3) with the state of affaires of the terrorist threats in the US, open door immigration policies are not really feasible at the moment.

I am not disregarding parents who sacrifice so much for their kids. I am congratulating them. Nor am I saying that not having kids is selfish. I am saying that if NO ONE has kids because we like our toys, we are f%*#ed.

oonope wrote:

You are so wrong.

Your type sits around thinking about us all of the time. This thread is proof.

Of course our attention won't be missed, you never had it to begin with.

You will never outnumber us, that is a little pipe dream of yours. It would fly in the face of nature.

Go live your sad little life.

Of course we didnt have your attention! Thats why you are here desperately trying to remind us. Because you arent paying attention to us. Plain as day.

Either that or well... you are. This thread is proof.

As it turns out, we already outnumber you to some extent and the numbers are headed in our direction. Just recently, single households passed married ones to form the majority of US households. The number is increasing. Unmarried workers make up 42 percent of the US workforce. The number is increasing. 60 percent of the US workforce does not have children under the age of 18 in the house. That number is also increasing.

But chin up now! Don't worry! Look on the bright side. When we are being rewarded for leaving work early, you can advance your career ahead of us by staying later than we do. That will probably suck for your kids and all but they need to "recognize the reality of the social situation".

No, people that say don't want kids are definitely not selfish...they just actually think for themselves and don't live by what tradition tells them to do...like marrying at this age, having kids at this age, etc...I think the world would be a lot better if people actually thought about what is best for them, rather than just doing what people expect them to do..I'm not against people having ten children, if that's what they want and are able to financially/emotionally support that many children, but I don't think society should expect everyone to have children...

Also, some people simply cannot have children due to health conditions...

The lady in question may actually envy those without children, which is why she is making derogatory comments...

Joe Kidd wrote:

Having four kids is irresponsible. Man, that's a load of youngsters. I know a couple with 6 kids. They make good money but they still live just above the poverty line with so many mouths to feed, clothes to buy, sports, activities etc.

Four children irresponsible? Ridiculous. Families just start getting normal with four or more kids. It's having just one or two that is unhealthy. All that suffocating parental attention focused on one small child.

And without a good sampling of the gene pool to look at, people get distorted ideas about inherited traits.

You're an only child and you like to paint and write poetry, but all your parents can think of is Great Aunt Sweezy who was 'artsy' and lived most of her life in the nuthouse.

Or the only kids are one boy and girl. So the boy has to be the representative of the whole male sex and the girl is the representative of the whole female sex, so the parents worry if each child does not seem to conform to the parents' vapid notion of proper sex roles.

The human family was set up to breed in abundance. Economies of scale. Better mental health.

Actually, I have a great family, my girlfriend and a group of friends that would go to the ends of the Earth for me.

My reason to live isn't money, but to have the means to live life to the fullest without feeling like I'm just strapped down by all my responsibilities and obligations.

When I die, my friends and family will be with me, and while they don't know it yet, my money will be going to them and not to random strangers, because they were the ones who were there to support me through the darkest days of my life.

Hahaha, I wouldn't have known you existed if it weren't for the fact that you cam onto my message board. When i am at home with my family, you will go home to your dark, empty apartment with your Ikea furniture and be sad.

You will never have control, you will always be viewed as a man/woman who could never get the job done. No one ever wanted to procreate with you.

It is natural selection at its finest.

Only the alpha males reproduce.

Why would anyone want your genes?

We pity you, and always will.

oonope wrote:

Hahaha, I wouldn't have known you existed if it weren't for the fact that you cam onto my message board. When i am at home with my family, you will go home to your dark, empty apartment with your Ikea furniture and be sad.

You will never have control, you will always be viewed as a man/woman who could never get the job done. No one ever wanted to procreate with you.

It is natural selection at its finest.

Only the alpha males reproduce.

Why would anyone want your genes?

We pity you, and always will.

Now Im all confused. How can you pity me when you aren't paying any attention to me?

Oh well. Sorry you got stuck with kids. Try not to let your bitterness at losing the best years of your life spill out on to those of us smart enough to use a condom

In only a couple of day or so, it seems the ET's (Extremist Trolls) have taken over most of the formerly-intelligent and rational discourse. Too bad.

Look everyone, 99% of the childless posters on this thread will be parents sooner than they think. They are trying to act all intellectual and high and mighty but in reality they haven't met up with a woman's biological clock yet.

At age 35 I was seriously of the opinion that I would not have kids. A year later I was married to a woman who also didn't want to have kids. Then tick, tock, tick, tock...she turned into a rabbit. Now I'm 46 with 5 and 3 year old boys and another on the way. Yours will desire to have kids too someday, then I want you to come back to this thread and kiss my ass. Hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahha!

BTW - I've never been happier! Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!