discuss.
discuss.
"get away" -Steve Scott
why am i doing this
if you dont use it, you lose it
but what about base training?
You don't need it. Didn't you say that once?
no.
what about it?
if you look at scott's 1981-2 journals here on the website, you'll see that he runs 85 or so per week most of the time until the summer, but along the way he does intense hill workouts and plenty of fast quarters (low 50s) every week. he gets the long runs, the hills, the track work the whole time, and he races the whole time, but without tapering often. he races, say, a 29 road 10k, and runs xc and australian outdoor and american indoor and so on before his real season begins.
Daniels and everyone else suggest that speed is a mistake in the off/base season.
in my other thread, i discuss my doing more speed training. im just wonder about the opinions of Steve Scotts quote and how he ran so fat without ever getting away from speed, geting more rest, and putting in more miles.
the430miler wrote:
Daniels and everyone else suggest that speed is a mistake in the off/base season.
Actually in DRF the good doctor himself states that one year he had his athletes do tons of work at mile race pace one off season (I don't have the book with me so I can't get an exact figure...a little help here...maybe?) and the athletes went on to have great seasons.
There's a difference between speed work and anaerobic work. You can do speedwork during a base phase as long as it's not anaerobic speed work.
What is anaerobic work?
The only true anaerobic energy supplies are the ATP/CP systems, and they last approximately six seconds. Beyond that, it's all aerobic.
HRE wrote:
There's a difference between speed work and anaerobic work. You can do speedwork during a base phase as long as it's not anaerobic speed work.
And there's also a difference in a mechanical human and an emotional one.
The research says it's not the ideal way. But Scott felt that he absolutely needed to keep his speed high, apparently, and so it was necessary, if just for him.
Frankly, I've seen some more athletes get faster by running slightly slower than race pace than I've seen get faster by hammering intervals.
the430miler wrote:
in my other thread, i discuss my doing more speed training. .
How did it work for you? Did you set a few prs this season or what? You hit your goal 2400 time?
Its not controversial at all idiot. Coe/Martin in Better Training maintain that 'if speed is so important, then never venture very far from it'. Speed practice (400m pace) should continue all through a macrocycle. This has been discussed at length before - Coe always maintained he could run a fast 400 at any time during the year. Why don't you read some of the previous discussions on this before rehashing previous threads.
HRE wrote:
There's a difference between speed work and anaerobic work. You can do speedwork during a base phase as long as it's not anaerobic speed work.
DING DING DING We have a winner. I completely agree. Doing some fast 100's and quarters inside a steady run is a great way to maintain fast tempo relaxation and aerobic capability. Even running fast tempos does nothing for pure speed. Got to keep those feet quick.
From your Idol himself, "If you lack the speed, you lose the economy of running action, trying to maintain the pace."
I think it's symantics. Anaerobic speedwork means that you do not allow yourself to recover, and this is normally done closer to the season. An example would be 8x400m at your 1600m pace with 45 second recovery jogs. Some runners like to maintain some turnover during the base phase, and in this case the speedwork is usually a notch slower with full recovery and integrated into more miles than you would normally do in your cool-down and warm-up. Example: 4 miles, followed by 6x400 a few seconds slower than your 1600m pace, with 400m jogs after each and a 2 mile cooldown. It's a nice 9 mile workout that shouldn't wipe you out. Of course, fartlek is a variation on this theme.
pdong wrote:
HRE wrote:There's a difference between speed work and anaerobic work. You can do speedwork during a base phase as long as it's not anaerobic speed work.
And there's also a difference in a mechanical human and an emotional one.
The research says it's not the ideal way. But Scott felt that he absolutely needed to keep his speed high, apparently, and so it was necessary, if just for him.
Frankly, I've seen some more athletes get faster by running slightly slower than race pace than I've seen get faster by hammering intervals.
This is another misconception. 400 and 800's are not speed. Sure they are fast but they are not pure speed and don't improve tempo and arm power. Speed is 200 (arguably 160m) or less with plenty of explosion.
Clearly Lydiard distinguishes between aerobic, anaerobic, and speed. One should not be to the exclusion of the other.
dromia wrote:
"If you lack the speed, you lose the economy of running action, trying to maintain the pace."
I agree!
In my eyes, this is where a lot of HS coaches go wrong. They see the young kid with terrible form arrive for practice. They want to build a base. But without proper mechanics, the increased mileage keeps them on an injury cycle. This is why there needs to be a mix "from the beginning". Obviously, faster reps should not be pure anaerobic or of great length, but they should be included to help build strength, economy of running, and long-term development. This also helps young runners develop a quick cadence, the #1 common link among elite runners. Remember, running is more than just cardiovascular development.