A kid on my team wants to make a change

Good for this kid!

I wouldn't suggest giving him all that mileage at once. It sounds like this kid wants to make a big improvement all at once, but you should let him know that is not usually how it works. It usually takes days, weeks, months, and even years of good training. Tell him that even if he doesn't accomplish his goals this year, to stick with it and that he eventually will. Running is a long process, and it's best to build up to it slowly to prevent injury, of course.

I wouldn't recommend him going over 50 MPW until he's done it for at least a month and he can handle it well. It may be tempting for this kid to run crazy mileage all at once, but that will most likely only lead to injuries.

... You should have him work on his diet and do other cross training, fitness activities as well as running.

are you his coach? if not, why don't you have him talk to the coach. sounds like that would be way too high of a mileage increase. maybe its just me.

By the way, the word you are looking for most of the time is "then," not "than"

This kid doesnt have that much time. This is going to be his senior year and although he hasnt mentioned it to me yet, I know hes been thinking about running for Cornell. He mentioned to me all the schools eh would go to are division 1. I have heard of kids dropping time like crazy especially if they are dedicated and lose the weight. He is not asking to drop all this time in a week. He has 3 months of summer training and 3 months of XC season.

I believe it is a little late for him to be running 100 mpw. I am running 80 mpw but I have built up to it for almost 9 months. He will certainly get injured or lose motivation. 60-70 is doable.

I smell a troll.. (are you even really a coach?)

Think long term progression. Make it through 1 season at 35 MPW, take some time off, make it through the next season at 38 MPW, and so forth.

no I am not a troll and I am this kid's captain. Our coach doesnt understand that much about summer training and everything he makes us do is unoriginal and just copied out of a book. This kid has dreams and I have heard of two kids who did amazing things that this kid wants to do. I will ask them. One specific kid I know of ran 500miles in one month and went from a 335k to 17 minute 5k. He later ran a 9:10 2 mile and now runs for princeton.

If the kid is so damn smart, maybe you ought to allow him to figure his training out. You refer to him as though he's some kind of dog. 100 MPW is not some kind of magic number and jacking some fat kid's mileage up to that just because you think it is a magic number would be stupid on your part.

ok fine 99mpw. but srsly I am just asking for some advice and even if it is possible. Everyone always wants people to shoot for the stars and really go after things and that is what this kid has. Here is a new question.

If you had an athlete who had 6 months to train. He is willig to do anything and everything to improve a lot. How would you train him?

If he continues to do what he is doing and runs 35mpw like suggested he will not make varsity and he will not drop much time.

obviously you're pretty clueless and anyone entrusting their training to you is making a huge mistake. Maybe be your own guinea pig rather than experiment on one of your teammates. If the kids runs on 90% of the days for the next six months, that would be good. Expecting incredible gains in such a short time is unreasonable but not surprising, given the fact that most kids these days want instant results and instant gratification. Live through your own running and stop thinking you know anything more than how to really screw this Korean kid up.

crazy streaker wrote:

If he continues to do what he is doing and runs 35mpw like suggested he will not make varsity and he will not drop much time.

He might want to concentrate on getting a good balance between his diet and training so that he can lose some weight. Running all of these miles won't do him any good if he just stuffs himself on food afterword. The first goal should be weight loss. Running a bunch of miles while overweight probably isn't so good for his heart or knees/ankles.

Losing some weight and running even 50 mpw would be enough for an 18 min 5k I bet... though I don't know how big he actually is.

Good luck to him though, its a worthy goal.

The question is...how many miles was he running previously? I wouldn't raise mileage by more than 20 mpw from one season to the next...injury always lurks around the shoes of the exhausted runner.

For someone looking to radically improve their running from a mediocre time to an acceptable tim, often a radical change in lifestyle must occur.

Break any distance more than 7 miles into two runs(excepting the long run, which should be slow and long). Complete the runs at whatever pace it takes to complete the distance. Train for endurance now, speed will come later. Running too fast on one day, only to struggle to complete the distance for the next two days isn't smart.

Have alot of variability in the daily mileage (ie, one day is 8 miles, the next is 3, the next is 5, etc...)

Do accelerations/striders (4x100m @ 1500 to 3000m pace) 5 times a week after running

Stretch before and after running (it won't help now, but it may help to avert injury mid-season)

Get a job that involves outside work...physical labor all day, 40 hours per week. Digging and other activities will build core strength, an iron will and good stamina. Spending all day outside for a summer will really make him lean and mean.

Have him eat lots of salads, high-quality carbs and good servings of protein.

I think that a summer of hard work, running and otherwise, will build confidence and leave him with a reward for his efforts: money and a faster metabolism. Staying active between runs through working really works wonders.

crazy streaker wrote:

This kid doesnt have that much time. This is going to be his senior year and although he hasnt mentioned it to me yet, I know hes been thinking about running for Cornell. He mentioned to me all the schools eh would go to are division 1. I have heard of kids dropping time like crazy especially if they are dedicated and lose the weight. He is not asking to drop all this time in a week. He has 3 months of summer training and 3 months of XC season.

Like a typical high schooler (no offense) you're not seeing The Big Picture here. So maybe he doesn't achieve his goals this year, so what. He does not have a terminally ill disease that will take his life if he does not run under a certain time this year, or the next. You're giving this kid only 6 months to achieve his running dreams, life and running does not work that way.

... I wanted to run college XC/Track too when I was a High School. However, I graduated with terrible times, but I kept on working hard and running on my own. I even tried out as a walk-on my sophomore year of college, and didn't make it. I continued to train hard and finally at the beginning of my fourth year of college, I made the team. So you see, it took me 4 years of hard work AFTER High School before I ever got good enough to make it on a college team. It doesn't work like "overnight" or 6 months of training hard you're magically super improved.

Ask this kid if he's willing to work hard for the next 5 years so that maybe he'll be able to run college for one. Because that's reality.

crazy streaker wrote:

no I am not a troll and I am this kid's captain. Our coach doesnt understand that much about summer training and everything he makes us do is unoriginal and just copied out of a book. This kid has dreams and I have heard of two kids who did amazing things that this kid wants to do. I will ask them. One specific kid I know of ran 500miles in one month and went from a 335k to 17 minute 5k. He later ran a 9:10 2 mile and now runs for princeton.

What's wrong with the textbook?

There's one thing you should understand, not everyone is naturally built for distance running. The first thing that stands out is that this kid is/was overweight, and from what I hear, "just started running".

Think of it, maybe you were active for the 10+ years before you started running competitively, but this kid, who knows. Maybe he was brought up with bad nutritional habits, or didn't like to exercise.

I hate to break it to you, someone can have goals, but let's make them realistic and take it one step at a time. Here is my training philosophy as a coach...

The most IMPORTANT thing for high schoolers is to run back-to-back injury free seasons. Yes, I admit that it is conservative, but you need to accept that the goal isn't to peak in high school. The goal is to have fun.

Now, I should say, if I ever see a kid that really has "the knack", I would recognize that and then have a discussion whether he would want to train a bit harder with me, or find a better "AAA" coach for him. (that's to quiet anyone who would argue that my training isn't in line with elite athlete development)

Your friend is NOT that guy, if he keeps training properly, he'll have fun.. and maybe.. one day.. 3rd or 4th year of college in a D2/D3 school, he could be a key team player *AND* be having the time of his life.

While I am ranting, what really destroys my "philosophy" is how some kids really fight to get a running scholarship, because education costs so much.. especially the girls, because if you're a girl with the genes and the desire, there's a good chance you can (over)train your way into a good D1 school. Guys don't have the same luck, but they're stubborn, so will get injured for no (good) reason.

I would suggest you bump him IMMEDIATELY up to 125 miles/week. Forget the "FEAR-FACTOR" and just go directly to 125. Have him run to a preset picnic location. Meet him; feed him; let him nap for a while. Send him home running. Find a nice lake or ocean beach far away and do the same. Get him some serious miles for 5 weeks. Find (if you don't already have one) a good 10 mile course. After the 5 weeks, cut off two days of long run and instead have him run that 10 mile for time. Hard all the way AND sprint in from half a mile out. Do that for 3 weeks. Then have him continue that routine BUT sprint the first mile fast (like the first mile of an NCAA championship XC race). Now he will come into XC season ready to rip!

Tell him its ok if he wants to come out of the closet

The problem is, Gerry Jogger, that a lot of 15-year-old kids might take you seriously. And despite your lofty athletic credentials, throwing some insane training slop for impressionable kids who are too naive to understand the limits of their own bodies is IRRESPONSIBLE.

I'm pretty sick of everyone talking about "slow progression" and "thinking about the big picture. Honestly, the way most of these great runners got to this position is through taking RISKS. Going for it, and not being afraid of naysayers or the chance of it. Say what you want about Gerry Lindgren, but the dude has BALLS. And honestly, if this kid is as serious as you say, why the hell not? He's got nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Shoot for the Stars, and you might just end up at the moon. It's great and nice to train conservatively, and within people's limits, but seriously, go for it. Go balls to the wall.

Sure man, the kid is running 2-4 miles a day right now. Why not just instantly jack him up to 18 a day? And let's do some flat-out 10M time trials just for kicks. Who cares if there's a .000000001% chance of success? After all, Gerry Jogger did it, although he wasn't overweight. In keeping with Gerry Jogger's infinite wisdom, the kid will have to live half his life hiding in self-imposed exile and learn how to answer the phone in a variety of high-pitched voices and strange accents. Lindgren's just a yappy coward with no balls to speak of.

I am all for conservative training methods and slowly building up because thats what I do and it has been working great. However, this kid doesnt have too much talent for this sport and for some people it is required for them to do more work to get to the same level. I am not retarded and I am not going to instantly bump him up to crazy mileage but every week or two bumping him up 10 miles isnt a bad idea IMO. Maybe thats the problem with American distance runners these days, we dont take chances. If I start him out at 20mpw which is below what he does during the season and slowly move him up he can lose weight and gain endurance.

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The kid says this is his last chance, it really is.