Rogo is right. When I at IUP 85-87 we respected these guys. Some were cocky some were straight up. They could talk the talk and walk the walk. Young guys respect your elders. You can learn a lot.
Cheers!!!!!
Rogo is right. When I at IUP 85-87 we respected these guys. Some were cocky some were straight up. They could talk the talk and walk the walk. Young guys respect your elders. You can learn a lot.
Cheers!!!!!
Because this is the forum to talk such talk.
These people can talk about their times because THEY RAN THEM! They have the right. I am sure Billy Mills occasionally revels in his memories of winning Olympic Gold. Same thing, different level.
It's not living in the past, it's remembering what this great sport has done for us, and what it has contributed to our lives at many levels.
Discussion of past performances can inspire, motivate, or annoy the hell out of you so much that you want to get out there and train to run faster times to one-up them. It's all good.
Start a new thread if you would like to talk about your career in management, your wife, and your two kids. While all worthy valuable accomplishments, this is not the forum.
And yes, my cross country uniform still fits.
....And go for it Rowe! Continue the tradition!!!
PSAC...Jack wrote:
Listen, there is no reason for the Boro alums of yesteryear to respect the current Boro boys or the recent alums! The old guys were badasses who could hold their own with MANY DI programs in the country. That hasn't been the case in years! So hanging that old banner in their apartment was how they tried to act like big time studs when the old-timers were the ones who got it done out on the XC course.
My advice for the Boro boys of the current generation - work your asses off and earn your own damn banners. You can do with those whatever you want.
RIGHT ON BROTHER ! The Boro of the late 70's was spooky good.
After the progarm broke up(lack of $$$) some of these guys went to div 1 schools and were instant stars. Example = Muggleton at Arkansas.
_____________________________________________
Back in the day bandits
............. Most people after college get jobs, families, and move on to professional careers.
And we all know that once you get a job you should never discuss the past or continue to pursue any outside interests.
Running should only be done by school kids and college athletes - please let the sport die!
Sorry, I've got to get back to taking mortgagae applications and thinking about cutting the grass!
Rogo,
you are the man! I miss the Pgh boyz!! Shaf is cool. He was shocked that i have "moved on" with my life. I run 20 miles a month if i am lucky.
Life is good. Ask Paul Friedrich (he is the man!) why i quit running in '95...when someone told me once (when i was talking about beating a 27:30 Kenyan), "Chris, you need to give up the ghost".
Those days are over...beer is still good...golf is better...and friendships take precedent!
Stealing the Grand Piano was cool. I will never forget it! Rolling it down the parking lot in the pouring rain...Ah yes, the good old days!
Who loves ya ROGO!
Rauber
Rauber,
Glad to hear your doin' well.
A few years away from it and then maybe you'll get the itch again and be running like 29:00 for 10km when you are 40+.
Who the hell knows? Either way, gotta enjoy it, right?
Rogo
Rogo:
Any interest in doing a 50K in Punxsutawney on September 6th? Mostly trails and a fair amount of up and down. Winning time usually around 4:00, a small field overall so pretty low key.
We can talk more at alumni next week -- assuming you're going. In the meantime, if you are interested, drop me a line and I'll pass along the info.
Fleck
Somewhere earlier in this post, somebody mentioned Mike Tonkin as 7th man on that 86 Boro team. Somebody also said he "drank too much." First beer that I EVER had in my life was handed to me by Tonkin at a gas well party (if you ain't from Western PA you won't understand) when I was in 9th grade. I thought the dude was the shit having watched him cruise a 31:00 10K in his hometown road race after knowing he was out until 2:00 AM the night before drinking (quite heavily) at that gas well party.
Amazing who you choose to look up to when you're young. Similarly, my entire high school cross team (Punxsy) knew of your guys' success and our coach even took us to watch you guys run at conference...
Hoovis
Call the coach and ask him or her about the program.
Fleck,
Love to do the 50 km except I'm teaching in New Mexico. I was just back for the summer. So the alumni race is obviously out as well. (Gonna be tight again this year. We need a fifth man.)
Got great memories of Punxsy. I student taught there in Fall 90 and did the ultra, then a national class 50 miler. It was the 3rd ultra I ever finished..ah to be young and a bit more stupid...again.
Gonna do some trail 50 milers this fall and probably a 48 hour in November or December. Slowin' but still goin'. Like you said: No choice, really.
Great posts.
You trainin' at all?
Rogo
I don't care how Watts tells the story. I was there.
The workout was 3 x 2 miles on the road with a 5 minute interval then a jog to the track for 4 times 200 meters.
First interval Bagley and Beardsley lead in 9:teens. I was 5 seconds or so back running the times Watts tells us to run, which was 9:20. On the second repeat they pull us through the mile in 4:29. By this time I am pissed because Watts seems to not enforce his own parameters. I put the hammer down to show these guys I can run whatever they want to run. I reel off the next mile in 4:24 and Bagley drops back and Beardsley is barely hanging on. The third repeat I just run my own pace in 9:20 and Beardsley and Bagley run 9:teens.
We head to the track. For the first 3 - 200's the boys are all racing 27's when Watts tells us to run 29-30. The last one I get pissed and the last 200 goes 25point. Watts let it get out of control. He had 4 guys capable of 28:30 - 29:20 10k's and he is letting us tear into each other. Not how I would have done it.
I was tired for a week.
Watts had a habit of always discounting me because I was never one of his boys. Even his memory discounts what I did for him. He never wanted me to be the good one of the bunch he wanted me to keep my place in the midpack. He also describes me as his smart runner but described the other guys as the tough runners; furthest f***ing thing from the truth. While they were running 80 mile weeks I was pressing 110. By nationals I was first guy, as planned, but Watts thinks it was because I was smart but not tough. That shit still pisses me off. I guess I was tough enough to know and run those extra miles and they would make me look smart on race day.
You now have a gift of knowing the real story. Watts can continue spreading his shit his own way. I stand by the truth. I remember it like it was yesterday.
Take this for what it's worth (and I'm sure I will get lots of responses from pissed off Boro runners saying it ain't worth much), but...
A few people on this board have asked why the IUP men haven't been to nationals since the early/mid 1990's. There are lots of reasons for this, but reading this thread has reminded me greatly of one of the more significant ones -- there has been a loss of tradition.
There were some incredible runners at IUP back in the 1970's, 1980's, and even the 1990's...just as at the 'Boro, California (okay, not in the 90's), Ship, and many other PSAC schools. For a long time, IUP alumni would come back and "hang out" at IUP at the cross country house and bring some of those stories -- that tradition -- into the lives of the current team members.
Over time, a variety of younger people on those teams (unfortunately myself included), somewhat 'rebelled' against that tradition and copped an "us now vs. them then" attitude -- we're better than you philosophy. For many years, the "alumni" and the "current team" didn't get along all that well. The tradition got lost in the mix.
It's easy to say, big f***ing deal, success comes down to talent and how hard you work. Those runners with the right combination of both will be successful.
There is certainly truth to such sentiments. However, as I have aged, I've come to learn that there's much more to it than that. Tradition helps get your ass out the door on a 10 degree day in the middle of December. That tradition makes you run Creekside (a 15-miler) instead of 11-mile loop on a Tuesday afternoon during Cross season. Most importatntly, that tradition is there to pick you up during the hard times -- which we all experience (training in the pool because of injury, loss of confidence after an injury, during a long spell of f***ing fatigue from running way more miles than ever before, etc.).
As I stated, for many years the alumni and current team didn't bond that well and tradition was lost. Enough time of "non-communication/non-bonding" has elapsed that the younger runners on the IUP team are far enough removed that they can now look back fresh on that tradition and the runners that came before them.
I have spent a lot of time recently talking about how the IUP guys are coming back into form and once again becoming competitive. While most of this must be contributed to their hard work and talent, I can't help but believe a small piece isn't tied to that tradition. Further, I FIRMLY believe that the ultimate success of the current, young IUP team will depend on their belief in and feeling a part of that tradition. If they believe that they are as good as those before them and can return IUP to excellence -- they will be.
This whole thread started out by some other runners wanting to understand how Edinboro trained because they obviously looked up to you guys and respected you guys. I've even thrown in my two cents about Watts' firm belief in winning and the various 'Boro teams living it and breathing it. It then broke into some tradition and folk lore about the 'Boro history and of famed workouts and national championships. Somehow, like that 3x2 mile workout, it spiraled WAY, WAY out of control.
I encourage you all to just stop now. Stop with the "team" versus "alumni" bullshit because it will only come back to haunt you. If I were running XC in the PSAC now, I'd be licking my chops -- calling this a "kink in the armour." It would motivate the shit out of me to run more, run harder, and take down those "quilt wearning bastards from the 'Boro." Instead of motivating each other, you are motivating your competition.
More importantly, you're f***ing up the longest and arguably best tradition in Pennsylvania college running! Penn State tradition has fallen...same with Bucknell. You guys are all that's left and you're f***ing it up. So, make a decision -- either keep up the petty shit and kill the tradition or get together for a hard-ass ten miler, drink some beers, and work on rebuilding that bond and earning a new banner that who the hell cares where it resides.
Hoovis
Rogo:
I know you hate people talking you up, but check out the "craziest runner you know" thread. Gave you your props you sick and demented bastard...
Also, things will turn around and the times will drop again. Hang the f*** in there because -- as you know -- there's no other option.
Hoovis
Rogo:
Dude, I have been running for about 8 weeks maybe even more like 12 weeks and feel slower and more f***ing out of shape than when I started. I have been logging the miles but don't seem to be getting any faster...hence, my pondering a 50K. The miles are there...the speed ain't.
I'll get my ass handed to me at alumni, but may be alright over 31 miles.
Determined to get back in shape though...aiming to be there by November/December so that I can race all next year. Tired of being a pathetic piece of shit -- just gotta do it.
Anyway, see you on the trails...
Fleck