That is a fact, in my opinion!!!!!
JW
That is a fact, in my opinion!!!!!
JW
Jack Black wrote:
One question I have is how will Brianna cope with being on a team when she gets to junior high or high school? If she has been coached by her dad all these years already, will she be willing to run under the guidance of someone else and train with other runners? Also, how will she react if/when she ever gets beat by a peer?
I think this is a great post. I can picture her father telling the high school CC coach how his daughter is to be trained. The Garritson's father solved the problem before they ever went to HS. I remember him commenting in a RW article (paraphasing) "I would not let my kids run for any coaches here. The HS programs in California all stink." He simply denied his kids a chance to run for the local HS. He ultimately destroyed his kids running careers by 1. Insisting HE was in charge, and 2. Assuming he KNEW MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. I see the same situation with this Briana girl. Daddy knows more about running than anyone who ever walked the planet and he must be in total control. Briana is not even in the same league as the Garritsons were at her age and yet, they disappeared from the running community. There are phenoms like her everywhere. She's not "incredible" like the Garritsons were. She even got beat by girls her own age at Junior Olympic nationals last year. There is another girl who lives near her, about the same age, who finishes not too far behind Briana. Comparing the two as 12-year-olds is useless; when they are seniors, we'll see who's better (if either are still running).
mad:
Sorry to hear about your experience as a child prodigy runner. Your case is an example of exactly why a lot of people are trying to say that what Briana's doing isn't in her best interests. I find it interesting that you even talk about having good parenting (presumably not overbearing), which reinforces the fact that heavy training and racing for young kids just plain isn't good for their physical development. A lot of people on this thread argue that, sure, maybe Briana won't become a superstar adult runner, because kids all move on to new activites, and thus she won't necessarily "burn out"--she may just move on. But I'll bet you could vouch that it's not as simple as just waking up one day and saying "I think I'm going to quit running and be a table tennis player", etc.--a really talented kid has all these expectations built up around them, well-intentioned or not, and their whole identity can be built around their running success. Quit running and everybody will probably be on your case about how you're wasting your talent.
Anyway, sorry it happened to you, and hopefully a few people on this board will actually listen to what you had to say rather than just stubbornly following what they think should be right.
woopwoop, is this about her or your dislike of her dad ?
Question: Did her dad interfere with the older daughter's HS coach?
You?re right, TomM, a number of people on here actually have valuable input. We?ve been round and round on this subject before, and the usual result was a lot of uneducated speculation. For once, this subject has generated a thread with more than bumper sticker wisdom in it.
That?s where I take issue with scotth?s statement about the number of pro and antis lining up - in fact, this complex issue has more than a few people here who are neither complete supporters nor detractors. Personally, I think the kid races too much. But that doesn?t put me in the camp of those who think that no child should ever run competitively before high school.
Thanks to a number of you for your well-considered opinions.
Thanks, I appreciate your kindness. You really hit the nail on the head with all of your comments.
Being a coach presently, I always stress the importance of having multiple interests, encourage other sports to my athletes...ie nordic skiing in the winter instead of indoor track, or swimming if my atheletes aren't interested in nordic. I also encourage my runners to take one month off in the summer if they have participated in three sports during the school season. One thing I know for sure, a talented athlete will always being talented, it is never lost. It is important to know how to treat this talent... (as a gift), and then learn how to use it when it is most important in life.
[quote]pushy dad wrote:
For once, this subject has generated a thread with more than bumper sticker wisdom in it.
That?s where I take issue with scotth?s statement about the number of pro and antis lining up - in fact, this complex issue has more than a few people here who are neither complete supporters nor detractors. Personally, I think the kid races too much. But that doesn?t put me in the camp of those who think that no child should ever run competitively before high school.
(/quote]
pushy, I'll stick to my brand of bumper sticker wisdom on this topic. My thoughts are distilled from over 30 years experience and observation in the sport. This, in itself, doesn't make me 'right' but does lend credibility to my words here. I've written something on this topic and it appears on
currently. There, I offer what I feel is a balanced look at youth running.
Sure, the number of pro/anti I offer are off the top of my head but likely very near the mark if you polled a broad cross-section of people. The good (if it can looked at that way) part of the anti sentiment is they want the best for the kid. The anti people have the best long-range interests of the kids at heart.
I DO have strong feelings about kids, before middle school age, getting involved in competitive running. In middle school, I draw the line at 3-4 outside of school comps. I fear too much, too young will erode kids' desire to continue and to develop naturally.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Your most current post is what I'm talking about. Look at me. Look at my Website. (Self promoting) With THE right way. Pretty nearly 8 on the Bull Shit O Meter.
Honestly, the real reason I come to this site is for blood and guts. In your last post you say it's 20:1 negative, I'd say more like 1000:1. People drop rocks on people's heads left and right. Check out the number of posts. This is like a feeding frenzy. I love it. This is the Jerry Springer version of forums. The problem is you take yourself too seriously. Dopey people like Mickey that post nice didn't realize where they were. This is the Bronx of forums. You won't see him again. Only stone throwers like you who repeatly post. However, don't be too thin skinned. If you fling rocks, expect a few back. But you're (and others)are the reason I come here to this thread. Honestly. this what the fans come to see. I want to see lots blood. Keep chucking.
That post was not intended to paint you with the bumper sticker brush - I've found in the past that you do have well thought out opinions on this. I just happen to disagree with them.
Nor was any of this about the actual numbers of 20:1. In understood the point being made.
I can easily agree to disagree. It's the flip opinions based on nothing I have a problem with.
Bullshit, for your benefit, I should've lifted my article and posted it here in full on letsrun. I don't give a rats ass if you go to that website to see what I've written or not. I listed it because it's already written and I don't feel like retyping it for too-easy-to-impress people like you. If you don't like what I write, fine.
Me, a stone thrower? If a stone thrower is somebody opposed to kids and racing, I'm guilty. Me, a self-promoter? That will be news to those that've known me a long time. It should be clear that I enjoy promoting the positive, upbeat, colorful and otherwise interesting aspects of the sport in my writing here and, if you care to look, elsewhere. I won't shy away from tougher issues like the Briana's of the world either.
pushy, I'm cool w/your feelings.
One word: pretentious.
hurdled400 wrote:
The only argument that rings true in this entire discussion is the physical condition of young women as they take up sport. It is a fact that young women mature more rapidly than young men to a certain age (10-13). But the quality of long bone growth, bone density, and muscle structure is not that of the men, until after menstruation begins. I believe this girl should be allowed to compete as much or as little as she likes, but medically, she needs to be monitored for the "triad" which consists of excessive weight loss, decrease in bone density, and irregular or absent menstruation. Any other comments represent opinion only and are subject to argument either way.
I think you, and several other people posting about this, are missing a point. This discussion isn't just about whether a 12 year old girl is racing too hard, or being dominated by her father, what have you. It's about the above going on since she was *6*.
Only time will tell, of course, but I think past precedents give cause to question that choice of lifestyle.
scotth,
I believe our positions on youth running are more similar than not, but where we have a major difference is the passing judgement on those who when we do not know the whole story.
For example, a wife walks in the emergency room with a black eye and busted nose, everyone assume wife abuse becasue 20:1 (I used your ratio) times that's the cause. How unforunate for the husband when she tell the story that she actually fell and hit her head on a table. No one believes her and the husband is given the evil look.
This is what you are doing to Briann's family. I read your article and noted that you talked from experience, that's good. But i also noted that when asked a direct question from someone you knew , you held your tounge. Why? You said in a previous post you don't shy away from the tough issues, but when you had a tough issue to deal with in person you kept your mouth shut, even when you had more specific informtion than you do in the Briana case.
I make this point because you had no problem publicly disecting a 12 year girls and her family which I think is wrong.
Man, you can't spell worth crap.
It makes me wonder whether your thinking is as flawed.
(It makes me wunder weather you're thinking is as floored.)
hey, what about me?
2 cents, I appreciate your measured response. Why did I hold my tongue? I believe I explained why...because I knew it wouldn't make a diff. What I did do was ask some leading questions that made those parents a little defensive...like are you thinking of moving to another district because you don't like the coach in the other district? In two instances, I knew the personalities of the parents and knew it was a waste of time to debate the issue w/them. In the third, I didn't know the guy and he was hot to move to Rockford for his daughter's benenfit regardless of what I said.
If you'll back thru my posts I believe you won't find much 'dissecting' of Briana. I've seen too many like her and it's easy for me to envision what took place and dip into my hat for comments. As I mention in that column, yeah, I know of some kids that have made it into adulthood still enjoying running...but they are exceptions. My 20-1 figure for anti vs pro kids is probably close to the number of kids that fail to make it from youth running to college running..and beyond.
....and one more thing, the Falmouth course was recently measured and found to be, for all intents and purposes, exactly 7 miles. Not 7.1 miles. The course coming up exactly on a mile mark is plenty unique.
for those concerned with my logic, I'll pay attention to my spelling / typing:
scoth, I'll send you a e-mail to continue this in private, but feel free to followup up on the following comments / obsevations:
1. I've noticed the Rockford program has produced quality runners the past few years. If a child from a neighboring district shows interest / potential in running would you look poor upon the parents for "transferring". Change a special academic program for running, would your answer be the same?
2. DO you think Briana is in the 20 pool or the 1 pool?
3. Not to pull your chain or insult you, but your answer "...because I knew it wouldn't make a diff. " sounds to me like a cop out.
It's easy for an adult to confront a child (Joan to Briana), easy for people to talk "tough" (can't think of a better word) on a BB but a little harder for adults to confront / differ over opinions with each other in person.
Your logic is flawed in that you choose not to confront an adult in person "...because I knew it wouldn't make a diff." yet you felt it was okay to do it on the BB even though you knew that what you said "wouldn't make a diff." to her father.
p/s thanks for the compliment on using guarded words! By the way, would one of those runners have the initials RW?
I always enjoy a good healthly debate so please don't take any of my comments as insulting.